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Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

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Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#11

Post by topkai22 »

> I have no managerial experience, hence I can't get any leadership roles (either people or software),

Management and leadership are overlapping but different things. You become a leader by having people who will follow you. Having control over their rewards and career (management) makes that more straightforward but it’s not the only way.

Do you know your boss’s biggest objectives, problems and worries? Your boss’s boss? Do you have opinion about what is holding your team back?

The answers to the above often aren’t strictly technical. Your boss might be under pressure to show efficiency improvements due to AI, or might have junior developers struggling to ramp, or be getting taken to task for quality issues. If you understand their problems and go to them with a solution they will typically be happy to make at least a little space to work on it. Succeed, and you develop trust, which in turn results in them being more willing to turn to you to solve problems and grant more autonomy to do so.

The key thing here is that you have to work to find problems that others want you to solve. You can develop autonomy, but only in the service of others.

That’s true whether you want to develop within a corporate environment or move into consultancy- you only get rewarded/paid to work on problems someone else wants solved.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#12

Post by tacitusarc »

throwaway_32u10 wrote: post #6
fatnoah wrote: post #4

> However, it seems like I'm stuck at my level. Have you gotten any feedback in your current role about why you're stuck? The reasons can vary from the difference in expected behaviors from level to level, no room at level +1, your current company/manager not really caring about your advancement, etc. > I have no managerial experience, hence I can't get any leadership roles (either people or software) Is this because…

> Have you gotten any feedback in your current role about why you're stuck? The reasons can vary from the difference in expected behaviors from level to level, no room at level +1, your current company/manager not really caring about your advancement, etc. I'm in a family-like company, so there is not much feedback giving. I'm trying to change a job, but there are few struggles: (1) I can't really improve salary that…

> I didn't progress fast enough to the style of companies that deal with high load, and other mambo-jumbo tech.

To clarify, you blame “not being a good enough software engineer” on working for the wrong companies?

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#13

Post by Apreche »

The easiest way to move up is to change jobs. The biggest mistake I made was staying in one place too long. Then I changed employers a couple times. Got big upgrades in compensation and negotiated a four day work week.

If you don’t climb the ladder at your current job, and you don’t see co-workers climbing, that means climbing is not possible at that employer. Do not stay there more than 2–3 years.

I was afraid to change jobs because I felt safe and secure in my current position. I thought that going elsewhere would be a horror show. My friends often complained, truthfully, about how terrible their jobs were. Mine was way better than that, so I stayed put. But then when I eventually got the courage to change, every time I moved it got better and better.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#14

Post by scarface_74 »

Apreche wrote: post #13

The easiest way to move up is to change jobs. The biggest mistake I made was staying in one place too long. Then I changed employers a couple times. Got big upgrades in compensation and negotiated a four day work week. If you don’t climb the ladder at your current job, and you don’t see co-workers climbing, that means climbing is not possible at that employer. Do not stay there more than 2–3 years. I was afraid to ch…

The original poster doesn’t seem to be just looking for increased compensation though. They want more “autonomy”. The preparation you do for interviewing is different than what you do for more autonomy and I assume he means leading projects.

It’s hard to both change companies and get a promotion if you haven’t demonstrated working at the next level. By promotion, I don’t mean more money. I mean increased responsibility.

I agree with you though about not staying at a job too long. I did the same thing for many of the same reasons between 1999-2008 and it took me 6-8 years to recover both to be competitive in the market and locally compensation wise.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#15

Post by scarface_74 »

topkai22 wrote: post #11

> I have no managerial experience, hence I can't get any leadership roles (either people or software), Management and leadership are overlapping but different things. You become a leader by having people who will follow you. Having control over their rewards and career (management) makes that more straightforward but it’s not the only way. Do you know your boss’s biggest objectives, problems and worries? Your boss’s…

In my mind, there is very little overlap in management which is about role power and leadership which is about relationship and reputation building.

Even a manager shouldn’t rely too much on role power to achieve objectives.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#16

Post by topkai22 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #15
topkai22 wrote: post #11

> I have no managerial experience, hence I can't get any leadership roles (either people or software), Management and leadership are overlapping but different things. You become a leader by having people who will follow you. Having control over their rewards and career (management) makes that more straightforward but it’s not the only way. Do you know your boss’s biggest objectives, problems and worries? Your boss’s…

In my mind, there is very little overlap in management which is about role power and leadership which is about relationship and reputation building. Even a manager shouldn’t rely too much on role power to achieve objectives.

Definitely agree, almost wrote that too, but it was already a long response :)

Management is about directing resources. Good management needs leadership ability to get the people they are directing to buy into where they are being directed, but also a bunch of other skills.

That being said, having the formal designation makes relationship and reputation building easier to start- subordinates are motivated to have a good relationship with you.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#17

Post by throwaway_32u10 »

tacitusarc wrote: post #12
throwaway_32u10 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you gotten any feedback in your current role about why you're stuck? The reasons can vary from the difference in expected behaviors from level to level, no room at level +1, your current company/manager not really caring about your advancement, etc. I'm in a family-like company, so there is not much feedback giving. I'm trying to change a job, but there are few struggles: (1) I can't really improve salary that…

> I didn't progress fast enough to the style of companies that deal with high load, and other mambo-jumbo tech. To clarify, you blame “not being a good enough software engineer” on working for the wrong companies?

I don't know how to express it correctly. But yes, sort of. I didn't work in high-load-kafka-like companies, so I'm kind of stuck in my mid level company types that do relatively simple things.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#18

Post by scarface_74 »

topkai22 wrote: post #16
scarface_74 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind, there is very little overlap in management which is about role power and leadership which is about relationship and reputation building. Even a manager shouldn’t rely too much on role power to achieve objectives.

Definitely agree, almost wrote that too, but it was already a long response :) Management is about directing resources. Good management needs leadership ability to get the people they are directing to buy into where they are being directed, but also a bunch of other skills. That being said, having the formal designation makes relationship and reputation building easier to start- subordinates are motivated to have a g…

Maybe? In today’s market, I’m going to do everything I can to build a positive relationship with my manager. Jobs just don’t fall out of the sky like they have done for me since 1996.

But if I don’t genuinely like and respect my manager, I’m not going to go the extra mile for him, I’m not going to stick it out with him through thick and thin and I’m going to leave at the first opportunity.

On the other hand, I’ve had very technical managers that their subordinates liked. But didn’t build positive relationships with the rest of the org. It was impossible to get things done that required cross team coordination and he couldn’t get the raises and recognition that his team wanted. Everyone ended up leaving.

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#19

Post by testfit1 »

> I'm not a good enough software engineer to do complex stuff (think: very high load, distributed, etc) - so I can't pass interviews to all the FAANG move-fast-high-load-distributed-world-changing-do-our-7-round-dfs-bfs-interview style companies.

Feel free to disregard if you're simply not interested in FAANG, but what makes you say this? What has your interview preparation looked like so far?

Re: Ask HN: Ways to progress career wise as SWE?

#20

Post by throwaway_32u10 »

testfit1 wrote: post #19

> I'm not a good enough software engineer to do complex stuff (think: very high load, distributed, etc) - so I can't pass interviews to all the FAANG move-fast-high-load-distributed-world-changing-do-our-7-round-dfs-bfs-interview style companies. Feel free to disregard if you're simply not interested in FAANG, but what makes you say this? What has your interview preparation looked like so far?

I have almost two decades of experience. I'm approaching 40 years old, I have a family. Sure, I might sound stubborn, but I don't have the time to study 3 months for the nuances of DFS algorithms, or grinding leetcode.

The interviewing process should evaluate my knowledge as required by the job description, and not to play a role in satisfying the ego of the interviewer(s).

So yes, while I did refresh my memory on Big-O notation, and ran through some common brain teasers, I'm not going to read books and invest 3 months of sleepless nights in order to get the opportunity to be a cog in FAANG.

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