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Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

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Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#11
post #6

This is an old topic that was discussed in many different questions on meta.stackoverflow.com. All questions such as these have been given a special archive status where the question is locked, voting is removed and they are popped off the question list. That lock-happy mod is the one of many fighting to keep these questions somewhere for people like you who push these silly conspiracy theories. Stop it. It's annoyin…

This topic isn't about the age of the SO question. It's about whether the SO mods calling such questions invalid and locking them is ruining SO. The SO mod says it's locked because it's not a good, on-topic question. I don't see how the mod fights to keep the question somewhere, by locking it and calling it an off-topic question.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#12
post #8

I think they made the right call on this example -- the whole point of SO is to get specific answers to specific questions. This question is vague and without the context that a reasonable person would need to give a specific answer. There are plenty of examples of good questions being closed because they are perceived as generating too much discussion (esp. on the "programmers" se site). IMO, you've given us an exam…

Please elaborate. If I want to know the pros/cons of storing images in a database, vs. (say) storing only the links to images in the database, what more specific question should I look for? How is that question too general or vague? Apparently at least 400 people thought it was reasonable, than thought it was unreasonable. 50+ people thought it was reasonable enough to respond to.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#13

If you enjoyed this question about "Storing Images in DB - Yea or Nay?" posted on Nov 28 '08 at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3748/storing-images-in-db... here are some other questions you might enjoy: Storing images on a database - Jul 1 '09 - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1071636/storing-images-on... Save image in database? - Apr 30 '09 - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/805519/save-image-in-data... sto…

If the question was locked because it's a duplicate, I understand and agree with that. But it wasn't locked for being a duplicate; it was locked for being an off-topic question. I don't see how you've addressed that.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#14
StackOverflow seems to think that these types of questions cause the community to sink to a lower level of discourse. I'd be inclined to disagree, except that the quality of responses their remains the highest I've seen on the internet. So, they appear to know what they are doing.

Quora is happy to host this type of question. Quora responses aren't usually as well-informed as SO responses... but I don't find that a compelling argument for SO to allow these questions.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#15
post #9

Moderating any online community is extremely difficult. Rules are generally guidelines and not always set in stone. So, this leaves things up to the discretion of moderators. It can be quite difficult to determine if something is or is not within rules. Was this locking a mistake? Probably, but one question locked means nothing. Moderators always have to watch out for 'rules creep' where the rules are stretched just…

Agreed, except I think it's probably indicative of a broad problem on SO (I'm seeing it too much, and I've seen other forums ruined by it). I think what happens is, a mod becomes overly sensitive to controversy (difference of opinion in the answers). Having only one way to end the controversy, they incorrectly declare the question to be off-topic.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#16
post #11
post #6

This is an old topic that was discussed in many different questions on meta.stackoverflow.com. All questions such as these have been given a special archive status where the question is locked, voting is removed and they are popped off the question list. That lock-happy mod is the one of many fighting to keep these questions somewhere for people like you who push these silly conspiracy theories. Stop it. It's annoyin…

This topic isn't about the age of the SO question. It's about whether the SO mods calling such questions invalid and locking them is ruining SO. The SO mod says it's locked because it's not a good, on-topic question. I don't see how the mod fights to keep the question somewhere, by locking it and calling it an off-topic question.

1. It's not a valid question for Stack Overflow under the current scope. The question was made in 2008. Of course it's a valid question, "Is the sky blue?" is a valid question as well. Doesn't mean it's within scope for Stack Overflow (see more below)

2. The mod took action but all mods took chances putting historical locks on question. There were many questions to clean up. So the mod didn't say squat, it was action by the mod which displayed a message by the system. Get it right.

3. Placing a question with a historical lock instead of closing and deleting is fighting to keep it in the system as much that is hard for you to believe seeing your extreme bias to mods of which you don't really what they do and why goes in the background. You really need to understand how this works instead of these claims. Mods see them, Stack Overflow users see them and they know it's false.

So straight to it,

_Why is it not a valid Stack Overflow question?_

Because it's not _definitively_ answerable. Keyword: definitively.

That's all there is to it. A 1-to-1 relationship with a question and acceptable (to the author) answer. Yes it's a programming question, it's a great question, it's an interesting question, it's a popular question _but_ there is no way to make an answer for it that can be acceptable without clumping it into one answer for the author. Everyone can have their opinion for the pros/cons. Stack Overflow is for definite Qs&As not discussions.

Once again if this wasn't realized this question and those like it aren't going anywhere. It's archived. Please re-read the notice and stop calling out mods, they do a lot (and by a lot, I mean enough that they should be paid for doing it) of moderation work for free. They don't need unfounded claims.

See more at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/126420/what-to-do-wi... and http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/126587/what-is-a-his...

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#17
post #14

StackOverflow seems to think that these types of questions cause the community to sink to a lower level of discourse. I'd be inclined to disagree, except that the quality of responses their remains the highest I've seen on the internet. So, they appear to know what they are doing. Quora is happy to host this type of question. Quora responses aren't usually as well-informed as SO responses... but I don't find that a c…

Thanks. To me it's simply a matter of whether the question is on-topic for programming. If so, don't lock it for being off-topic. It seems so simple, especially when the question gets 400+ net votes and 50+ responses. They should let their users decide, with their votes, whether a question is off-topic.

SO is good, but it could be much better without so many locked on-topic questions. I don't want to ask a question there, even if it's clearly not a duplicate, with lock-happy mods there. I don't like having my time wasted.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#18
post #13

If you enjoyed this question about "Storing Images in DB - Yea or Nay?" posted on Nov 28 '08 at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3748/storing-images-in-db... here are some other questions you might enjoy: Storing images on a database - Jul 1 '09 - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1071636/storing-images-on... Save image in database? - Apr 30 '09 - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/805519/save-image-in-data... sto…

If the question was locked because it's a duplicate, I understand and agree with that. But it wasn't locked for being a duplicate; it was locked for being an off-topic question. I don't see how you've addressed that.

There's a subtle problem with closing questions - basically there's a list to choose from and you can't always express exactly why you made that choice. Even when people agree on closing a question I can often see a wide spread of chosen options.

If you read into the FAQs / standards for questions, this one may not be off-topic, but is definitely low quality. Seeing the expression "is not considered a good, on-topic question", I would have to agree. If there's no specific option for "it's written in a bad way", then this would be the next natural choice. There's no initial research, no specific list of questions, silly title and a tone that would get edited pretty quickly these days.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#19
post #4

I left stack overflow about a year ago when they banned my account for a week for spamming. I posted a similar answer to a few similar question (like 3 honest) and they banned me. I was so outraged I quit the site completely. That being said I thought about building a site to compete, but stackoverflow basically owns the market. I have no way of collecting users like they do.

Stackoverflow took their market directly out of the hands of expertsexchange. They're a lot better than expertsexchange in every respect I can think of offhand, but they do have weaknesses, and I agree with the submitter that one of those is the moderation culture. I'm surprised more users aren't bothered by it.

The Internet is not going to run out of space. Just as with Wikipedia, "deletionism" is inevitably an attempt to fix some other problem that could better be addressed some other way. If there's a problem with duplication of questions, that's because the UI doesn't do enough to make the older questions easier to find. (Hint: let users vote on tags, and give karma to users who surf through the suite adding good tags to existing questions.)

Marginally-offtopic questions are especially harmless; if there's a problem with those, let the users police the site by downvoting. If that isn't enough, again, it's indicative of some other problem, such as the lack of some sort of gateway between different Stack Exchange sites.

Ultimately, the mere fact that a site like stackoverflow needs third-party moderation means there is room for improvement at the design level. It may seem that stackoverflow is the craigslist of Q&A sites, but I don't think so. It will be easier to dislodge than Facebook, I think.

Re: Ask HN: Is StackOverflow being ruined by its mods?

#20
post #4

I left stack overflow about a year ago when they banned my account for a week for spamming. I posted a similar answer to a few similar question (like 3 honest) and they banned me. I was so outraged I quit the site completely. That being said I thought about building a site to compete, but stackoverflow basically owns the market. I have no way of collecting users like they do.

Just curious - what was your username? I'd like to see the answers.
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