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Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

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Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#11

Post by area51org »

We didn't think of it as job-hopping, but yeah, staying at a job for about a year was not uncommon. The thinking was: demand is high, so if you aren't eventually recruited out and you really can't find anything better, maybe there's something wrong with you.

Yeah, that line of thinking can be bogus. I ended up staying at a startup for quite a while, and occasionally had to defend myself for not bailing out even after a couple years. Saying, "Stock options" and winking usually quieted down the critics. There are reasons (even beyond stock options, LOL) for staying at a job for more than just a little while.

BTW a lot of what others have said here (pay raises came from getting new jobs, employers saw long stints at a company as a potential warning sign that you aren't really very good) does ring true.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#12

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #10

I job hopped all the time in the 90s. It's not a new thing. Whether it was common for most people I can't say, but the idea of jobs for life was already gone.

The main thing is job hopping gives you bigger pay raises and greater experience than you get staying in one role. Some people don't like doing that, whether because they're already getting what they need or find it stressful.

Do what works for you.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#13

Post by hasbot »

I did. Mostly because I kept finding myself on dead end projects. I'm not sure why I kept getting into that situation. After 2001 or so I had better luck but still usually switched gigs every couple of years. In my 28 year career starting in '86 the longest I stayed at one corporation was 7 years and I was on four different projects. Shortest was one month. Signed on and found they really had no plans for future projects. I'm not sure why they were hiring.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#14

Post by JohnFen »

fruktmix wrote: post #5
JohnFen wrote: post #2

I sure did, as did most of the devs I worked with. For two reasons: first, that the only time you'd get a pay raise is by changing jobs and second, because lots of employers considered more than 5 years or so at any given job to be a yellow flag (because it's a potential indication that your skills aren't staying up to date.) Even now, I rarely stay at a given job for more than 5 years or so. But that's mostly becaus…

The problem with this these days is that, even if you want to do something new, companies will not hire you because you lack work experience of what skills you want to obtain. I heard that back in the days, if you knew coding you were hired. Today you have to know 10000 things.

That hasn't been my experience at all, honestly. But I also have the advantage of having decades of experience. It might be different for others.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#15

Post by JohnFen »

rzzzt wrote: post #6
JohnFen wrote: post #2

I sure did, as did most of the devs I worked with. For two reasons: first, that the only time you'd get a pay raise is by changing jobs and second, because lots of employers considered more than 5 years or so at any given job to be a yellow flag (because it's a potential indication that your skills aren't staying up to date.) Even now, I rarely stay at a given job for more than 5 years or so. But that's mostly becaus…

And they just let you use the new skills and not assign work based on your existing experience (the "old skills")?

It's rare that a project requires nothing but new skills. Almost every project I've worked on has mostly used my existing skillset, with the addition of one or two things that are new to me. No employer has ever expressed a problem with that to me.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#16

Post by JohnFen »

nosequel wrote: post #8
fruktmix wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this these days is that, even if you want to do something new, companies will not hire you because you lack work experience of what skills you want to obtain. I heard that back in the days, if you knew coding you were hired. Today you have to know 10000 things.

Leetcode wasn't a thing for my first 15 years. I got a couple of jobs just from a lunch or dinner and a couple of polite conversations.

Whether or not Leetcode is a thing now depends on where you're applying. I have yet to encounter it, personally. I suspect that's because I am not interested in working for FAANG-like companies.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#17

Post by williamcotton »

area51org wrote: post #11

We didn't think of it as job-hopping, but yeah, staying at a job for about a year was not uncommon. The thinking was: demand is high, so if you aren't eventually recruited out and you really can't find anything better, maybe there's something wrong with you. Yeah, that line of thinking can be bogus. I ended up staying at a startup for quite a while, and occasionally had to defend myself for not bailing out even after…

Employers viewing long stints as a negative have literally zero managerial accounting knowledge and are at best useless.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#18

Post by chrismcb »

When I was in highschool back on the early 80s I got a job paid internship. One of the programmers told me the average turnover in the industry was 3 years. I believe today the average turnover is 3 years. I don't think much has changed, and it has nothing to do with LinkedIn, glassdoor, etc.

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#19

Post by anonzzzies »

I co founded a 400 person company started in 1996 and sold in 2011; we had only 2 people leave (we fired a few but that’s not job hopping) before 2008. I have another company for the past 10 years and it’s nearly impossible to keep people, especially during/after covid, no matter the pay. I would say it definitely increased from my pov.

Edit: reasons for leaving are; 1) want a bigger company for security (which is not really a thing here as you get paid even if the company goes bankrupt or you are fired; also I have funds for 10+ years for every person we hire; it’s not possible for us to go bankrupt as I am risk averse these days) 2) wanting to do resume driven dev; in that case indeed I wish them luck but good riddance; those are the most worthless to me; wish I could detect that behaviour earlier, but for obvious reasons, they try to hide that

Re: Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently?

#20

Post by Clubber »

Yes, the general rule was to stay at least a year though. My first two jobs were a hair under 2 years each. The first one was an unbearably toxic environment, but that's typical of your first job. I learned a lot because I did everything: networking, database, reports, server config, applications, integration, support, etc. All from scratch. The second I learned a lot but got stuck in a rut once I learned it. This was my big name company. I then did contracting for a year then the dot bomb + 9/11 happened, contract expired and I was out of work for 6 months and miserable. I learned that it might be beneficial to stick around a place for a while that seemed stable. First job after dot bomb was 8 years (learned a lot but stayed 2 years too long), 6 years (learned a lot and left at the right time), then 2 years (didn't learn much, tried to right a sinking ship) and currently 5 years (learned a lot and it was a file -> new experience).

I did a whole lot of projects on my own time to keep up to date with interesting new tech and make some side money. Nothing really blew up though.

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