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Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#11

Post by welfare »

tharkun__ wrote: post #5

Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find out things from there. No internet, nothing. Oh and a set of like a gazillion 3.5" floppies with Borland C and a book accompanying it. I made a super cool looking password entry screen with ascii art that was started by autoexec.bat before showing the start men…

His vision is a “survival zombie game where you have to find and repair cars to escape the zombies”

Yeah I know, that’s how I started as well. Got some old 8086 and zero instructions on how to use it.

But he’s not curious in the same way I was, maybe it’s the time right now. Kids expect immediate gratification, or maybe he needs a bit of a push.

I looked at Roblox studio, that looks promising. Thanks!

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#13

Post by Lariscus »

tharkun__ wrote: post #5

Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find out things from there. No internet, nothing. Oh and a set of like a gazillion 3.5" floppies with Borland C and a book accompanying it. I made a super cool looking password entry screen with ascii art that was started by autoexec.bat before showing the start men…

Word of warning about Roblox, it is home to child labor exploitation, gambling and chat rooms rife with predatory behavior. They allow young game developers to sell their creations and take a 70% cut of their revenue; that is if they let you cash out at all. I recommend caution and at the very least be involved in what your children are doing in Roblox.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#14

Post by tharkun__ »

welfare wrote: post #11
tharkun__ wrote: post #5

Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find out things from there. No internet, nothing. Oh and a set of like a gazillion 3.5" floppies with Borland C and a book accompanying it. I made a super cool looking password entry screen with ascii art that was started by autoexec.bat before showing the start men…

His vision is a “survival zombie game where you have to find and repair cars to escape the zombies” Yeah I know, that’s how I started as well. Got some old 8086 and zero instructions on how to use it. But he’s not curious in the same way I was, maybe it’s the time right now. Kids expect immediate gratification, or maybe he needs a bit of a push. I looked at Roblox studio, that looks promising. Thanks!

Yeah totally see the gratification bit. You can help him of course and try to steer him towards incremental improvement.

With Roblox he will definitely be able to just use pre-made (of not super awesome looking) cars and zombies. In fact the Roblox tutorials come with a pretty good looking Zombie actually. With animations and all. They also have some official item collections which included high and low poly stuff.

You can help him put together a simple version in a couple days tops probably. Like something that's literally just car that won't drive, some zombies that walk towards the player location if in range, he has to long press to "repair" the car and escape. First version done.

Then expand from there, like have an actual "broken car" model vs "working car". Start adding houses and streets and an "escape zone" you gotta reach etc.

That said, don't underestimate his curiosity. I thought my kids wouldn't get past that either and now I sometimes glimpse or they show me what they've been working on. I just showed them some 3D software like Blender, they got a tablet and a cheap graphics tablet for the PC. And I do see them doodling around with it, trying things. Just like we did. But with cooler tech. Just today actually I told one of them when they were on the tablet how I watched Star Trek as a kid and always wanted to "live long enough that I'd have something like the P.A.D.D.". And look here we've had iPads for "forever" now and the kids think it's normal to have.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#15

Post by rolph »

establish an awareness of 'gameology':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_genres

demonstrate how complex even the simplest graphics games can be:

https://github.com/flightcrank/pong

build an appreciation for the math involved.

cut the project into pieces; get a cursor character moving; then intercepting objects. then start working on eye candy.

work the skeleton of the game first, then start dressing things up.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#16

Post by primitivesuave »

I created this Scratch proof-of-concept for 3D pong (https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/1881311/) over a decade ago when I used to teach kids. I also found several other examples on the Scratch website which show how to build 3D graphics on a 2D canvas. After many years of teaching kids to code, I would say the best introduction for a 9 year old is to start with block-based environments to build structural thinking fundamentals, before introducing him to typed programming languages.

The issue I see in starting in Unity or an equivalent high-level abstraction (e.g. threejs.org), is that it doesn't build strong fundamentals in how you think about solving problems. Many kids these days think they are "coding" when they are really just modifying a collection of examples and starting points (which has fueled the burgeoning industry of summer camps teaching "Minecraft modding"). As is the case for many other skills, great amateurs make great professionals.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#17

Post by rolph »

welfare wrote: post #11
tharkun__ wrote: post #5

Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find out things from there. No internet, nothing. Oh and a set of like a gazillion 3.5" floppies with Borland C and a book accompanying it. I made a super cool looking password entry screen with ascii art that was started by autoexec.bat before showing the start men…

His vision is a “survival zombie game where you have to find and repair cars to escape the zombies” Yeah I know, that’s how I started as well. Got some old 8086 and zero instructions on how to use it. But he’s not curious in the same way I was, maybe it’s the time right now. Kids expect immediate gratification, or maybe he needs a bit of a push. I looked at Roblox studio, that looks promising. Thanks!

Grand Theft Auto: the Dead Rising.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#18

Post by tharkun__ »

Lariscus wrote: post #13
tharkun__ wrote: post #5

Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find out things from there. No internet, nothing. Oh and a set of like a gazillion 3.5" floppies with Borland C and a book accompanying it. I made a super cool looking password entry screen with ascii art that was started by autoexec.bat before showing the start men…

Word of warning about Roblox, it is home to child labor exploitation, gambling and chat rooms rife with predatory behavior. They allow young game developers to sell their creations and take a 70% cut of their revenue; that is if they let you cash out at all. I recommend caution and at the very least be involved in what your children are doing in Roblox.

Seconded on the money part. I'd treat it as just a game engine to scratch the itch of learning and steer them towards actual programming in Lua.

Then, even if the language would be different, they can transfer to a proper game engine like Unreal.

But publishing the game in Roblox for real could still be a good thing (or not). Just don't expect to "get rich fast". It can teach that even you have a cool game, nobody is gonna find it and you'd have to stand out. In the end it's a bit like YouTube. Same exploitative relationship. You might make money. Most won't. Many will feel lots of pressure for no reward. And even with reward the pressure might become too much.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#19

Post by brudgers »

* Simple language

* Simple games, tic-tac-toe (naughts and crosses), hangman, pong.

* Pair programming

* An activity you do together.

It’s an opportunity to be peers because neither of you has expertise or experience.

It’s an opportunity to learn together.

Don’t let it be “Once, my dad and I…”

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: 9-yo son wants to build a game, I'm lost. What can I do?

#20

Post by thunderrabbit »

tharkun__ wrote: post #14
welfare wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His vision is a “survival zombie game where you have to find and repair cars to escape the zombies” Yeah I know, that’s how I started as well. Got some old 8086 and zero instructions on how to use it. But he’s not curious in the same way I was, maybe it’s the time right now. Kids expect immediate gratification, or maybe he needs a bit of a push. I looked at Roblox studio, that looks promising. Thanks!

Yeah totally see the gratification bit. You can help him of course and try to steer him towards incremental improvement. With Roblox he will definitely be able to just use pre-made (of not super awesome looking) cars and zombies. In fact the Roblox tutorials come with a pretty good looking Zombie actually. With animations and all. They also have some official item collections which included high and low poly stuff. Y…

Thank you for simplifying the "repair" process to long press. That's amazingly helpful for me to think about ways to create a minimum viable product.
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