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Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

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Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#11

Post by scotty79 »

HuShifang wrote: post #8

Personally I would vote "no" regardless of whether I had confidence the kid wouldn't be exposed to the dregs of the Internet, for two reasons: 1. LLMs are I think pretty inarguably bad at answering certain types of questions in a factually accurate way, at least without nontrivial prompt engineering. I don't think many 8 year-olds will recognize which types of questions the LLM will give inaccurate answers to, or be…

> LLMs are I think pretty inarguably bad at answering certain types of questions in a factually accurate way

I wonder how would LLM compare to average pre-internet adult an 8 year old might have access to. People are also bad at accurately answering questions.

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#12

Post by softwaredoug »

IMO It's pretty locked down. Far more than general web usage. I frequently run into limits accidentally (and annoyingly) in ways I would not expect (something saying it would generate unsafe content, etc).

So as things go, its pretty tame, and way better than unsupervised social media or Google access.

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#13

Post by dariusmonsef »

This is something @Asa Miller and I are building: apps for kids under 12 that unlock access to the wonder and power of the web in a fun / safe way.

We’ve started with social messaging for kids under 12, that includes a kid friendly GPT bot they can interact with... Genie.

DM me for early beta access.

Beta site: https://beta.genie.gg

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#14

Post by BillyTheMage »

sk11001 wrote: post #5
yawpitch wrote: post #4

How do I put this? Assuming that a given LLM was trained on N percent of the Internet, then exposing your kid to that LLM is, given sufficient time and API spend, exposing them to everything in that N percent. So, I leave it to you to determine how comfortable you are allowing your child to more or less freely experience N percent of the Internet.

This isn't how LLMs work - they're trained to be helpful and give correct responses. You could argue to what extent that's achieved but the point is that it's not a weighted average of the internet, it's been fine-tuned towards correctness and helpfulness.

I thought one of the biggest arguments against them was the fact that they inherently aren't good at being correct? They just produce something that looks like a human wrote it real good.

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#15

Post by sk11001 »

BillyTheMage wrote: post #14
sk11001 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how LLMs work - they're trained to be helpful and give correct responses. You could argue to what extent that's achieved but the point is that it's not a weighted average of the internet, it's been fine-tuned towards correctness and helpfulness.

I thought one of the biggest arguments against them was the fact that they inherently aren't good at being correct? They just produce something that looks like a human wrote it real good.

> They just produce something that looks like a human wrote it real good.

That's what the base model does. To get an LLM assistant there are additional training phases to make it conversational, helpful and more correct - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZQun8Y4L2A

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#16

Post by yawpitch »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #10
yawpitch wrote: post #4

How do I put this? Assuming that a given LLM was trained on N percent of the Internet, then exposing your kid to that LLM is, given sufficient time and API spend, exposing them to everything in that N percent. So, I leave it to you to determine how comfortable you are allowing your child to more or less freely experience N percent of the Internet.

Thats like saying they shouldn’t talk to their grandfather because he is a war veteran? Grandfather knows what is appropriate to say to an 8 year old. ChatGPT is well trained not to spout out “bad stuff”. Try to get it to - if you can it requires an elaborate trick.

Ask it to repeat one word and it leaks its training data verbatim… this thing *IS NOT* a grandfather and has no contextual understanding whatsoever of who (or what) its interlocutor is: https://not-just-memorization.github.io/extracting-training-...

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#17

Post by yawpitch »

sk11001 wrote: post #5
yawpitch wrote: post #4

How do I put this? Assuming that a given LLM was trained on N percent of the Internet, then exposing your kid to that LLM is, given sufficient time and API spend, exposing them to everything in that N percent. So, I leave it to you to determine how comfortable you are allowing your child to more or less freely experience N percent of the Internet.

This isn't how LLMs work - they're trained to be helpful and give correct responses. You could argue to what extent that's achieved but the point is that it's not a weighted average of the internet, it's been fine-tuned towards correctness and helpfulness.

Sure… and so far there always appears to be a way of breaking that fine tuning; see the the recent paper on training data extraction I linked in another comment below.

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#18

Post by a-saleh »

I played around with my kid with supervision, and had her alone with ... midjourney, I think? Million weird dragons ensued.

I probably wouldn't give her access to chatgpt, but more for dislike of my kid's chats being stored with a corporation that will use it for something. That is the reason kid's email is protonmail and calendar is in nextcloud.

I would consider setting up https://ollama.ai/ ? You can run it locally and because it is smaller not as smart as state-of-art LLMs, it could train them better to be wary of the more advanced version.

Re: Ask HN: Give 8 year old access to Chat GPT?

#20

Post by sk11001 »

yawpitch wrote: post #17
sk11001 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how LLMs work - they're trained to be helpful and give correct responses. You could argue to what extent that's achieved but the point is that it's not a weighted average of the internet, it's been fine-tuned towards correctness and helpfulness.

Sure… and so far there always appears to be a way of breaking that fine tuning; see the the recent paper on training data extraction I linked in another comment below.

There's a big difference between being breakable and being representative of the web content used for training like you claimed earlier.
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