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Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

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Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#11

Post by grumblingdev »

superchroma wrote: post #7

I have been on two projects now that use web frameworks to ship complex management applications and both were nightmares. The cost of doing even simple changes was not small. React has been way worse than angular on this front too. People do not understand it. They do not think " the react way ". They invariably code something that doesn't consider reacting to change properly and now you have a complex component that…

Yeh, React is a nightmare. It's too easy to build a tangled, un-performant mess.

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#12

Post by grumblingdev »

PaulHoule wrote: post #9
superchroma wrote: post #7

I have been on two projects now that use web frameworks to ship complex management applications and both were nightmares. The cost of doing even simple changes was not small. React has been way worse than angular on this front too. People do not understand it. They do not think " the react way ". They invariably code something that doesn't consider reacting to change properly and now you have a complex component that…

Half me wants to say that the SSR-based web application was a revolution. I had a boss who was both a sales genius and an obnoxious penny pincher and he had a pitch that "custom software development was more affordable than ever" and I would back up that with an explanation of the miracle of the relational database and the "stateless" applications that could be built out quickly. The thing about React is it can be so…

Everyone bought into "immutable" "no side-effects" "one way data flow" as this ultimate goal. But never thought what the tradeoff is.

And people get FOMO that they need to use a big thing that they couldn't write themselves.

Whereas if you throw out everything and just build only what you need, you get something infinitely more understandable and simpler, probably with some hand-rolled data-binding thing that you actually understand.

Most people don't understand how their frameworks are working under the hood. They are just relying on a nicely documented API...until anything goes wrong.

Trying to debug React for example is insane. And if you build your own custom store it re-renders 6 times when in dev. When I saw this...I knew React's days were numbered.

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#13

Post by PaulHoule »

grumblingdev wrote: post #12
PaulHoule wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half me wants to say that the SSR-based web application was a revolution. I had a boss who was both a sales genius and an obnoxious penny pincher and he had a pitch that "custom software development was more affordable than ever" and I would back up that with an explanation of the miracle of the relational database and the "stateless" applications that could be built out quickly. The thing about React is it can be so…

Everyone bought into "immutable" "no side-effects" "one way data flow" as this ultimate goal. But never thought what the tradeoff is. And people get FOMO that they need to use a big thing that they couldn't write themselves. Whereas if you throw out everything and just build only what you need, you get something infinitely more understandable and simpler, probably with some hand-rolled data-binding thing that you act…

Yeah that’s the ultimate interview question from Facebook: “explain why this component calls render() 46 times” and the answer is “it doesn’t, it renders 47 times” and they have to bring in one of the core developers to stop all the head scratching.

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#14

Post by catlover76 »

grumblingdev wrote: post #10
catlover76 wrote: post #3

Do you have thoughts and opinions on the various options for Windows desktop development? I would be curious to know, I am starting to work on a Windows desktop app. I am assuming that the first, MVP-style, attempt will be using Electron. But I am also wondering if Maui will end up being a better option, or if I will be able to have an excuse to use the Avalonia framework for F#

> the first, MVP-style, attempt will be using Electron. Good choice. If you want to stick to HTML...WebView2 is suppose to replace it, but it assumes your backend code is .NET or C++, instead of JS/Node.js. Microsoft Teams is using it. If you want to use native Windows UI components from JS code, then React Native for Windows is recommended. Facebook Messenger is using it. All approaches require C# or C++ modules to…

Cool, thanks for this info.

Seems like there are kind of many, many options, but none of them are particularly great.

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#15

Post by catlover76 »

superchroma wrote: post #8
catlover76 wrote: post #3

Do you have thoughts and opinions on the various options for Windows desktop development? I would be curious to know, I am starting to work on a Windows desktop app. I am assuming that the first, MVP-style, attempt will be using Electron. But I am also wondering if Maui will end up being a better option, or if I will be able to have an excuse to use the Avalonia framework for F#

I think avalonia is much more promising than Maui as the latter seems to be kind of mythical in nature.

What do you mean? That you've never seen anything actually built in Maui even though people mention it?

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#17

Post by grumblingdev »

catlover76 wrote: post #14
grumblingdev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the first, MVP-style, attempt will be using Electron. Good choice. If you want to stick to HTML...WebView2 is suppose to replace it, but it assumes your backend code is .NET or C++, instead of JS/Node.js. Microsoft Teams is using it. If you want to use native Windows UI components from JS code, then React Native for Windows is recommended. Facebook Messenger is using it. All approaches require C# or C++ modules to…

Cool, thanks for this info. Seems like there are kind of many, many options, but none of them are particularly great.

Just no obvious choice like every other platform.

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#18

Post by superchroma »

catlover76 wrote: post #15
superchroma wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think avalonia is much more promising than Maui as the latter seems to be kind of mythical in nature.

What do you mean? That you've never seen anything actually built in Maui even though people mention it?

It seems not ready for commercial use, and perpetually not ready, which is unfortunate.

Re: Ask HN: Write once, run anywhere front ends failed. Thoughts?

#19

Post by superchroma »

grumblingdev wrote: post #12
PaulHoule wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half me wants to say that the SSR-based web application was a revolution. I had a boss who was both a sales genius and an obnoxious penny pincher and he had a pitch that "custom software development was more affordable than ever" and I would back up that with an explanation of the miracle of the relational database and the "stateless" applications that could be built out quickly. The thing about React is it can be so…

Everyone bought into "immutable" "no side-effects" "one way data flow" as this ultimate goal. But never thought what the tradeoff is. And people get FOMO that they need to use a big thing that they couldn't write themselves. Whereas if you throw out everything and just build only what you need, you get something infinitely more understandable and simpler, probably with some hand-rolled data-binding thing that you act…

Yeah, the last paragraph is the clincher. When it's going wrong, on fire, lagging out your browser, and you're adding console logs in effects to chase what is driving changes you've lost.
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