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Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

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Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#11

Post by mcraenich »

abramN wrote: post #6

demonstrated expertise in one or more domains, can guide other professionals, sets and enforces standards, knows how to manage up and communicate to stakeholders, IT project management knowledge

This is a good answer although I think someone with this ability is approaching the level of lead. It's an ideal senior, but many seniors don't demonstrate all of these qualities.

At a bare minimum I think you're looking at someone who has a solid understanding of the code base and business they're working in.

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#12

Post by GoToRO »

They want loyalty. Loyalty for them means just time (6+ years). I saw a lot of "loyal" people that were pushing the company into the ground everyday.

Basically you forgo any income increases that you get when you change companies for the remote possibility they will make you senior someday. You also get some money.

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#13

Post by sneed_chucker »

Software engineer titles are largely meaningless.

The same title can mean totally different things at different companies.

You typically get "leveled" by a company based on your resume, years of experience, and interview performance. Sometimes companies intentionally under level you to try and pay you less than your fair market rate.

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#15

Post by [deleted] »

stefanos82 wrote: post #5

OK, here's my personal hypothesis, as I have no idea what are each company's credentials for such title, but here we go: If, for instance, you have 10 years of professional experience in a specific tech stack, let's say front-end development, you have mastered your craft, and you deliver faster than your deadlines, my personal opinion this should sound like a senior developer's level of expertise. I could be wrong th…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#16

Post by galdosdi »

Here's how it really works usually at non-tiny companies:

1. You negotiate a salary when interviewing. 2. If they like you at that salary they make you an offer 3. HR assigns you whatever title corresponds to the salary band that contains the salary you happened to manage to negotiate, as per HR's list of salary bands.

In other words, in theory, the system is supposed to look like they go find an engineer, figure out if they're senior based on interviewing them and other signals etc, and if they're senior they get the senior rate.

The reality is the opposite-- they just figure out whether they want you bad enough to pay the rate you want, and then, if so retroactively justify it as corespondening to whatever HR says they have to call you back I justify that salary.

So for example, this makes it easy to end up with a senior who is more 'junior' than a non senior, if 'senior' was hired when the job market was very hot, while the 'junior' who is actually more experienced was hired during a slow market.

Title indicates salary, not the other way around!

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#17

Post by muzani »

It's just relative. Senior means you're representing the CTO and entrusted with whatever product needs. Non senior means you're not. Higher than senior is an inflationary term to give the illusion of progress when a company has been around long enough but they can't demote the people hired as senior to non senior.

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#18

Post by leandot »

Some random ones:

  - thinks about the bigger picture, scalability, future maintenance, technical debt, documentation, testing, security etc.
  - can see possible edge cases and how to handle them properly
  - can do research alone and reason why X and not Y, can justify why X is better even though management really likes the Y buzzword
  - unblocks non-senior developers in case of problems
  - can communicate with product, marketing, sales, etc.
  - doesn't complain in case of issues or messy code, but fixes them
  - builds tools that help the whole company, not only the current task

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#19

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

sneed_chucker wrote: post #13

Software engineer titles are largely meaningless. The same title can mean totally different things at different companies. You typically get "leveled" by a company based on your resume, years of experience, and interview performance. Sometimes companies intentionally under level you to try and pay you less than your fair market rate.

Going in under-leveled but at the highest salary/total comp you qualify for could be beneficial. If its a large company that has a well known job title hierarchy you ideally want the maximum salary in the lowest job title in the hierarchy that has that salary in its range. Pretend your target salary is $100 (the numbers don't matter) and they have L1-L10 with L1 being the lowest and the ranges are:

* L2: $80-110

* L3: $90-120

* L4: $100-130

You would ideally want to go in as an L2 at $100 because then the silly game of corporate promotions works in your favor. Typically its easier for lower levels to get promoted and promotions usually have some bump % tied to them. If you enter at L4 you may find progressing into L5 or L6 takes much more political savvy, luck and time than actual merit. At some point most people, statistically speaking, will top out at a title and salary either because the pyramid nature of the hierarchy means its super selective to move up or because they have plateaued with skills, etc.

Re: Ask HN: How do companies decide who is a senior developer?

#20

Post by sneed_chucker »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19
sneed_chucker wrote: post #13

Software engineer titles are largely meaningless. The same title can mean totally different things at different companies. You typically get "leveled" by a company based on your resume, years of experience, and interview performance. Sometimes companies intentionally under level you to try and pay you less than your fair market rate.

Going in under-leveled but at the highest salary/total comp you qualify for could be beneficial. If its a large company that has a well known job title hierarchy you ideally want the maximum salary in the lowest job title in the hierarchy that has that salary in its range. Pretend your target salary is $100 (the numbers don't matter) and they have L1-L10 with L1 being the lowest and the ranges are: * L2: $80-110 * L3…

Yes, I suppose so but that assumes two things:

1. That you know the per-level salary bands before you join the company (this is often not public information)

2. That the salary bands overlap to a significant degree

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