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Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

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Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#11

Post by warning26 »

dagmx wrote: post #10
Mordisquitos wrote: post #7

If by "public transportation" we restrict ourselves to short-range metropolitan services, as used for commuting, all else being equal then the answer is no. The reason for this "no" depends on whether we're talking about an area where public transport is highly developed (e.g. most urban areas of Western Europe and Japan) or areas in which it is underfunded and underdeveloped and is mostly seen as transport for poor…

To add to your list, I think cities need better options for last mile transport. A big issue with public transit is that it gets you to the ballpark of where you want to go but your commute from there might still be lengthy enough that you need to call an Uber anyway. A lot of cities tend to have really great main trunk transit, but things get really sparse coming off of the trunks. Having better options for spreadin…

The “last mile” problem you mention isn’t really a transit problem, it’s an urban design problem.

In a properly designed area, anywhere you’d likely want to go would be walkable from a transit stop. This is often non-obvious to people who grew up in car-centric areas, where everything is necessarily spaced exceedingly far apart to make room for parking.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#12

Post by atoav »

amichail wrote: post #8
Mordisquitos wrote: post #7

If by "public transportation" we restrict ourselves to short-range metropolitan services, as used for commuting, all else being equal then the answer is no. The reason for this "no" depends on whether we're talking about an area where public transport is highly developed (e.g. most urban areas of Western Europe and Japan) or areas in which it is underfunded and underdeveloped and is mostly seen as transport for poor…

Wouldn't adding more expensive classes provide funding to increase capacity?

Public transport shouldn't be treated as a simple commodity. Having good public transport increases the land value, decreases maintenance costs for roads, increases revenues for local shops, decreases polution and noise and the follow up health care costs and so on.

So a public transport service can be year after year in the red, while hollistically generating a ton of value for everybody in the city.

In my eyes the ig orance toward rhese other benefits is a shortcoming of the neoliberal ideas that have been popular over the past decades. Sure you can make a public transport company more financially viable by cutting services, but that comes with a hidden cost elsewhere.

The goal should be to have public transport so good, reliable and clean that people won't even feel a need for a business class. Maybe this is my bias as someone who had the pleasure of growing up in the alps with very good public transport systems, but hey, why not.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#13

Post by dagmx »

warning26 wrote: post #11
dagmx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to your list, I think cities need better options for last mile transport. A big issue with public transit is that it gets you to the ballpark of where you want to go but your commute from there might still be lengthy enough that you need to call an Uber anyway. A lot of cities tend to have really great main trunk transit, but things get really sparse coming off of the trunks. Having better options for spreadin…

The “last mile” problem you mention isn’t really a transit problem, it’s an urban design problem. In a properly designed area, anywhere you’d likely want to go would be walkable from a transit stop. This is often non-obvious to people who grew up in car-centric areas, where everything is necessarily spaced exceedingly far apart to make room for parking.

I think it’s both, because I see it as chicken and egg.

Good urban design goes hand in hand with good transit route designs. Often one ends up having to accommodate the flaws in the other.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#14

Post by Mordisquitos »

amichail wrote: post #8
Mordisquitos wrote: post #7

If by "public transportation" we restrict ourselves to short-range metropolitan services, as used for commuting, all else being equal then the answer is no. The reason for this "no" depends on whether we're talking about an area where public transport is highly developed (e.g. most urban areas of Western Europe and Japan) or areas in which it is underfunded and underdeveloped and is mostly seen as transport for poor…

Wouldn't adding more expensive classes provide funding to increase capacity?

At the level of funding needed to increase the capacity of metropolitan services, the possible additional income from more expensive classes is negligible. Consider that public transportation is almost always subsidised, hence current tickets are already well below the cost of a trip. This is why many transport services offer cheap season tickets for residents, while making some additional cash (but still well below cost) from infrequent users such as tourists.

At most, maybe some kind of new bus services which were "first class only" could be self-sustaining, but only at a very high premium which would make them ridiculously expensive and still barely worth it for anyone.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#15

Post by turtlebits »

dagmx wrote: post #10
Mordisquitos wrote: post #7

If by "public transportation" we restrict ourselves to short-range metropolitan services, as used for commuting, all else being equal then the answer is no. The reason for this "no" depends on whether we're talking about an area where public transport is highly developed (e.g. most urban areas of Western Europe and Japan) or areas in which it is underfunded and underdeveloped and is mostly seen as transport for poor…

To add to your list, I think cities need better options for last mile transport. A big issue with public transit is that it gets you to the ballpark of where you want to go but your commute from there might still be lengthy enough that you need to call an Uber anyway. A lot of cities tend to have really great main trunk transit, but things get really sparse coming off of the trunks. Having better options for spreadin…

Hong Kong has minibuses, which are smaller in size and make more frequent shorter loops. Not sure how viable they are in less dense cities.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#16

Post by maxmouchet »

arek_nawo wrote: post #4

I see at least 1st and 2nd class very often in longer-range public transport, like trains. That said, I don't think the lack of higher class options is the reason why people don't use public transport. Some other reasons I could think of: - People (especially once they get used to it), might prefer to travel alone or with people they know (compared to strangers); - For some, public transport can feel limiting, as you…

Anectodally, Paris metro used to have two classes: https://www.messynessychic.com/2014/12/04/that-time-the-pari...

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#17

Post by sam2426679 »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #7

If by "public transportation" we restrict ourselves to short-range metropolitan services, as used for commuting, all else being equal then the answer is no. The reason for this "no" depends on whether we're talking about an area where public transport is highly developed (e.g. most urban areas of Western Europe and Japan) or areas in which it is underfunded and underdeveloped and is mostly seen as transport for poor…

It's worth pointing out that Japan does have business/first class on some of its trains. Presumably more people are willing to take it, or they simply make more $ per head.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#18

Post by willio58 »

I would take public transportation if it meant not having to take buses only. Without trams or metros within cities or fast trains between cities, there’s really no benefit to me using those services over my car (unfortunately)

Buses are cheap for cities so they’re common, but I’ll just say it, they suck. Without dedicated bud lanes they get stuck in traffic, they’re slow, etc.

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