Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 71 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#11

Post by hermitcrab »

_0xik wrote: post #5
it_citizen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, but sometimes looking for recent books with the same underlying message is better than going through the classic. I read the mythical man month recently and the examples often involving OS/360 development are brutally outdated. I couldn't relate and I had to force myself to finish.

The Mythical Man Month is also super anti-feminist, which I wish people talked about more if they're going to recommend that book.

I don't remember that. But I read it a long time ago. Can you supply a quote to back this up?

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#12

Post by hermitcrab »

hermitcrab wrote: post #11
_0xik wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mythical Man Month is also super anti-feminist, which I wish people talked about more if they're going to recommend that book.

I don't remember that. But I read it a long time ago. Can you supply a quote to back this up?

I found this: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1461289590

"A team of two, with one leader , is often the best use of minds. [Note God's plan for marriage.]'"

That is only sexist if he is saying that the man is naturally the leader. Did he say that?

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#13

Post by gjadi »

I read it last year and I think it's still relevant.

I had planned to write on the topic. In his book, Steve McConnell advocates for PPP = Pseudocode Programming Process

Basically, he says you should outlines the structure of your code first, before writing your actual code.

IMHO this is even more relevant in the age of AI assisted programming. Pseudocode Programming Process is becoming Prompt Programming Process.

The process is the same, it's just the tooling around it that has evolved.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#14

Post by actionfromafar »

hermitcrab wrote: post #12
hermitcrab wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember that. But I read it a long time ago. Can you supply a quote to back this up?

I found this: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1461289590 "A team of two, with one leader , is often the best use of minds. [Note God's plan for marriage.]'" That is only sexist if he is saying that the man is naturally the leader. Did he say that?

At the time, it must have been the straight reading, right?

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#15

Post by drewcoo »

hermitcrab wrote: post #12
hermitcrab wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember that. But I read it a long time ago. Can you supply a quote to back this up?

I found this: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1461289590 "A team of two, with one leader , is often the best use of minds. [Note God's plan for marriage.]'" That is only sexist if he is saying that the man is naturally the leader. Did he say that?

The book is at least a decade or two out of political fashion.

For thousands of years, certainly in European culture, the default human entity, when not specified, was masculine in gender. By which I mean grammatical gender, not the current politically vogue meaning of "gender."

We don't need to disregard thousands of years of knowledge because the authors were unaware of what would be PC in their future. That would be puerile. ("Childish," from the Latin word for "boy.")

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#16

Post by blowski »

_0xik wrote: post #5
it_citizen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, but sometimes looking for recent books with the same underlying message is better than going through the classic. I read the mythical man month recently and the examples often involving OS/360 development are brutally outdated. I couldn't relate and I had to force myself to finish.

The Mythical Man Month is also super anti-feminist, which I wish people talked about more if they're going to recommend that book.

I think "anti-feminist" implies it expressses some opinion about the feminist movement, which it doesn't, to my recollection.

That said, it is somewhat sexist in its assumption that all programmers are men, which is not a surprise given when it was published. That lack of gender inclusivity is right there in the title. But it doesn't really take away from the value of the writing unless you're trying to be offended.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#17

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #10

I'd say it's still a good resource to have; it's not just about programming but about project management, planning, etc. I'd take their recommendations about code style and documentation and whatnot with a grain of salt though, languages, tools and styles have changed since then. Don't skip them, but don't adhere to them religiously; add them to your arsenal of knowledge. It's also a bit of a slog to read front to ba…

> I'd take their recommendations about code style ... with a grain of salt though

IIRC, this book started me on the "meta-rules" of code style, the "what makes good rules", specifically

* aim for readability

* the role that "mere familiarity" plays in readability

* Team style over individual style, org over team, industry over org.

* the small amount (but not zero) of actual data i.e. studies here.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#18

Post by shubhamjain »

Most likely no! Do you really need to read a 900 page book to understand how to write good code? There might be nuggets of wisdom here and there, but you'll most likely pick them on your own as you code and grow. Problem with these books is that you tend to over-apply whatever you read. You read the fact that configurations are good, so you create a nest of abstractions to make code configurable, even when it doesn't make sense. This is the stuff that I have seen happen over and over again. Over-engineered crap resulting from programmers trying to make future-proof code.

The best way is still, reading and writing lots of code. You'll pick the right way quite naturally.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#19

Post by pharmakom »

gjadi wrote: post #13

I read it last year and I think it's still relevant. I had planned to write on the topic. In his book, Steve McConnell advocates for PPP = Pseudocode Programming Process Basically, he says you should outlines the structure of your code first, before writing your actual code. IMHO this is even more relevant in the age of AI assisted programming. Pseudocode Programming Process is becoming Prompt Programming Process. Th…

This is why expressive programming languages matter. If your language is expressive enough, the sketch will be executable.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#20

Post by blowski »

shubhamjain wrote: post #18

Most likely no! Do you really need to read a 900 page book to understand how to write good code? There might be nuggets of wisdom here and there, but you'll most likely pick them on your own as you code and grow. Problem with these books is that you tend to over-apply whatever you read. You read the fact that configurations are good, so you create a nest of abstractions to make code configurable, even when it doesn't…

I agree that you don't need to have read it to be a good programmer. Yet, in my experience, there is a large overlap between those who are good programmers and those who have read it. With such a heavy use of anecdata, it's hard to say how much is causation or just correlation.
Post reply on HN