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Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

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Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#11
I got a job at one of the big tech co’s maybe 5 years into my career, which at the time I thought was a great achievement, but actually I found the job pretty dull and a bit like you say, quite far detached from what made me excited about programming.

I quit after 18 months and went into contracting for startups instead, which seemed like a way to still make reasonably good money (though nowhere near as good as FAANG if you factor in the stock) and actually get to do some fun stuff - startups can be much more fun if you’re from a “hacker” mindset I think as there’s always too much to do and not enough people, and plenty of chances to learn new stuff.

I found not being a permanent employee allowed you to have less of the downsides associated with startups, e.g. you probably feel more comfortable working 9-5 if you’re on a fixed term contract versus being a permanent employee with equity etc. Also leaving a contract after the initial term if it isn’t working out is not a big deal at all, so it’s a great way to experience lots of different environments without the commitment. I’m not sure if contracting is such a big thing where you’re based (I’m in the UK where it’s very common), but I’d definitely recommend looking into it if that sounds appealing.

I was lucky enough to land a contract at a company in a field I’m passionate about which allowed me to extend my skill set from pure web dev to also do some C++ development for an app, which I’ve found is a really interesting niche for me personally, and again I think the lower level of C++ programming appeals to the hacker mindset. I’m now back as a permanent employee in the “medium tech” (lol) world, but my contracting experience was great fun and allowed me to find a niche which I really enjoy and which led to work more aligned with the reasons I got into this as a youngster (companies using C++ and JS together generally aren’t building yet another CRUD app!)

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#12
You are 32ish. That’s still very young in the grand scheme of things and plenty of time to turn things around. Went through this myself, and did a complete 180 at the ripe age of 41, so you are way ahead than me.

Introspection can only work so much. “Extro”spection can be twice as effective. You can only know so much internally.

You mention not having love for the “art”. What do you have love for? Or what pulls you towards it, even if only slightly? Have you explored that or given it enough time to turn into something?

Looking for inherent meaning in work can be a mirage. You have to “create” that meaning for whatever you are doing.

I have written about my own experience that might be useful.

Some questions to ask about your current goals and career: https://www.leadingsapiens.com/questions-midlife-career-chan... https://www.leadingsapiens.com/ask-before-setting-goals/

David Whyte’s Crossing the Unknown Sea is a must read. I elaborated on one of his concepts here: https://www.leadingsapiens.com/the-set-of-our-sail-in-work-a...

Mid career can be especially dangerous if we are not alert. Captured some of the dynamics here: https://www.leadingsapiens.com/mid-career-mistakes/

Frameworks were essential for me to think through the big change. I collected all of them here: https://www.leadingsapiens.com/essential-career-change-frame...

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#13
> Have you had moments where you did a sober double take and decided to alter your course or commit to it and stay on it? Heck, maybe close the laptop altogether.

One data point for you: In 2011, age 27, I left the laptop in San Francisco and took off with a backpack, thinking that I might never code again. About 2 months in I was in Thailand and randomly stumbled across an interesting book on assembly language, got myself a netbook, and was hooked. That was the last time I questioned it. I love programming and will do it as long as I'm living.

> What questions would you say one can ask themselves to really get to the bottom of it?

Is there a big question or contrarian idea that motivates you?

My biggest mistake in life has been not believing in myself when in the minority, and thinking my math or understanding of the world must be wrong and I must be the crazy one. After 2020 (when most of the world went full idiot regarding a bad flu), I realized I was completely wrong about the distribution of courage, honor, and intelligence in society, and that society is often crazy, and the ones called "crazy" by the talking heads are actually often the sane ones (Elon is a great case in point right now).

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#14

So one question I asked myself is what I needed in life to be happy, and how that related to my job. I settled on three things: a permanent home, a place in a community/family, and some sort of "life's work". Now, that last one could be a job. I want to work on something meaningful , in a way that -- if I were on my death bed -- I could say to someone else, "carry on my work". I like my job, it's interesting and usef…

As an aside one thing I’ve found is that it’s nice to have people count on you - but you also need to work on counting on others to build relationships that are deep. And sometimes those people will fail you (and sometimes you fail others) but that’s not the end of the world.

It becomes especially obvious when you have children; you have to start counting on them quite early to let them grow.

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#15
What you're saying resonates a lot with me - I feel like I fell into programming (also writing game hacks), and I'm jealous of the passion I observe in others for SWE-specific concerns.

You look at the core problems of software engineering from a human-centric point of view - which is a great perspective, IMO.

Have you thought about trying to transition to a role that is more human-focused? I'm guessing with your level of experience, it wouldn't be too hard to find a path to team lead or EM. I'd also potentially consider consulting, either freelance or as part of a firm.

Personally, working on a larger "system" that includes people - a team, a department, a solution - is much more rewarding, because I get to work on a larger class of problems with a more diverse toolset, and I get to observe my impact on others.

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#17
The realities of day to day software engineering ARE a chore and when you focus too hard on solving difficult problems it’s easy to miss a step that will advance your career.

I remember working in a team of 30-40 developers and we had those incredibly boring monday morning meetings. Nobody wanted to say anything, most if us were just waiting for the meeting to be over. But as soon as some trivial question came up there were always a few to seize the chance to waste everyones time with some nerdy discussion while there were some acutal and serious software design fuckups in place that nobody wanted to tackle. This is the core issue with most software engineers: they are not invested enough to make something great.

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#19

I got a job at one of the big tech co’s maybe 5 years into my career, which at the time I thought was a great achievement, but actually I found the job pretty dull and a bit like you say, quite far detached from what made me excited about programming. I quit after 18 months and went into contracting for startups instead, which seemed like a way to still make reasonably good money (though nowhere near as good as FAANG…

> went into contracting for startups instead

Did you find these opportunities mostly through your personal network? What would you recommend to others looking to find similar opportunities?

Re: Ask HN: Wanting to grow – what questions should you ask yourself?

#20
I don't know that I have any good questions to suggest that you ask yourself but I just want to point out that "average" or "normal" are not pejorative terms. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a fine job at work and then going home to enjoy reading a book or whatever hobbies you have.

The reason I point this out is that whenever I feel like you're feeling I eventually realize it's because I'm buying into the lie that I have to be a paragon of excellence at something for my life to be worth living or to get the most out of it. I think IT work, programming in particular, makes us think in terms of optimization but that's just not the way humans work. Of course we may want to "optimize" in small ways like healthy living or gaining skill at a hobby. There's nothing wrong with aspirations but there's also nothing wrong with being happy where you are with what you have.

I fell backwards into IT work after failing at the career I wanted out of college and then taught myself to program so I could sidestep into a developer role when I thought that would fulfill me. It didn't. I still have good days and bad days and sometimes the suspicion that I'm not fulfilling my potential creeps up on me. These are the ups and downs of real life, not problems to optimize away. My greatest pursuit lately has been growing in my ability to accept disappointment with equanimity.

To address your specific request, maybe some questions you could ask yourself are: Do I have realistic expectations about what a job is supposed to do for me? Is my job about me and what I want or is it a role I use to serve others?

One suggestion to top it off: It sounds like you're close to answering your own question when you talk about "humans and how we work, and how we use our brains." So, at the risk of being too blunt, maybe don't think so much about yourself. Maybe spend some time thinking about how you can grow in learning about humans, how they work, and how you can be of service to them as they ask themselves the same questions you're asking yourself.

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