Easy: just learn Mandarin /s
And start talking in awful beginner's Mandarin during these conversations. The colleagues will inevitably switch back to English just after a few minutes of suffering.
Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
11–20 of 111 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#12> I don't want to be the asshole to ask people to speak in English, or make my manager be that guy either.
Well what do you want?
Mandarin lessons for yourself?
English lessons offered to your colleague?
To be moved to another team?
Or do you just want a way to make everyone speak English without people thinking you are “an asshole”?
You can talk to your manager about your feelings and what you want to happen, they will do something — maybe it’ll even be what you want, but they also might try to convince you this isn’t worth worrying about because you can’t be included in everything anyway.
Having some ideas of what you want to happen as opposed to simply the final state of things can prepare you to think about your actions and reactions affect others.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#13Easy: just learn Mandarin /s
This is of course the flippant answer but it’s not a bad one. Like, why not? Speaking another widely used language is a really amazing experience and you have the hard parts out of the way which is an excuse to do it and people to practice with. If it seems daunting remember that it’s something even the dumbest two year olds are able to figure out how to do, so you could probably figure it out.
Counterpoint - learning Chinese as an adult who natively speaks English is incredibly hard. If you don't have enough motivation, it is a tedious slog that takes at least a thousand hours of work. I don't think "talking to coworkers" is enough motivation.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#14Just talk to them. In English.
I've worked in a multi-language business for many years where I did not speak all the languages, and there are two points I think you need to take to heart
1. No one can guess what you're feeling/thinking, you need to tell them
2. Don't take it personally if people are doing what comes naturally to them
Your comment on benefit of the office is understood, but misguided; your colleagues don't have an obligation to speak a specific language to you and make you feel better, that's not their job. I am not trying to be harsh, but you need to understand that your personal desire and comfort is not their responsibility. If they aren't being hostile to you or any other workplace violation, they're not doing anything wrong.
My guess is you feel left out because you _don't know_ whether you're left out or not. Even if they talk about your project in Mandarin, can you be 100% sure it's something relevant to you? Or even really about the project? Can you be certain that one of your colleagues wasn't just talking about how stressed they are about something and just wanted to vent? I'm not sure you can know this unless you ask them or learn the language, and in fact, both will help you feel a bit more included.
Overall, just talk with the colleagues in a private way and just mention your feelings and how you really want to join the conversations with them on the project but cannot if they converse in Mandarin; after that it's up to them.
For yourself, understand that you don't need to be part of every conversation and your colleagues don't have an obligation to you or the company to hold every conversation in English. The steps you can take are to just calmly tell that you want to join the conversations about the project (or others), and also learn some Mandarin. It's honestly not _that_ hard to pick up languages at least at a rudimentary level. Probably you will sound funny at first, but everyone does with a new language. Use it as an icebreaker to get in and just own it, and soon you will all find a middlepoinn that works for you.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#15How about explaining the situation to your manager and proposing a discussion among your manager and all the members of your team to agree on some guidelines for language use within the team?
In my experience in multilingual situations, people tend to shift to their first language just because it’s easier and feels more natural; it can also feel awkward to begin a conversation in one language and continue it in another. People rarely use their first language to intentionally exclude others from the conversation, but they often forget that others might justifiably feel excluded.
A nonconfrontational discussion might provide a sufficient reminder to the Mandarin speakers to use English when you are around. You might also find out whether the Mandarin speakers on your team have any issues with English use in your team that you might not be aware of, such as the native English speakers talking too quickly, using slang they don’t understand, etc.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#16> One of my team members has a hard time with English How did they get hired?
If we assume this is happening in a Mandarin speaking country, why to hire someone that doesn't speak the local language?
Does this person bring to the table something that the locals can't? Then, there you have your answer too for the guy that doesn't speak English.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#17That's hilarious. I used to work as a senior backend developer in one of Berlin's startups. Another senior BE dev was a native Russian speaker, so despite our fluency in English we started chatting in Russian now and then. Our conversations were meaningful and respectful (unlike those held by our predominantly Italian sales team who would shout out words like "cazzo"). We didn't mean to exclude anyone either, we only used Russian talking about stuff we wouldn't immediately share with everone in the first place - just because junior devs do not have to participate in the discussions about architecture design. Still, a junior dev from the US felt intimidated hearing our mother tongue so she asked our manager to introduce "English only" policy in this German company. She could not pass the probation period (was too busy doing gymnastics directly in the middle of the office space) and left the company, but the policy remained. Sure I don't have an answer to your question, but may I ask you: what's wrong with you? How do you think, does your attitude have something to do with xenophobia?
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is of course the flippant answer but it’s not a bad one. Like, why not? Speaking another widely used language is a really amazing experience and you have the hard parts out of the way which is an excuse to do it and people to practice with. If it seems daunting remember that it’s something even the dumbest two year olds are able to figure out how to do, so you could probably figure it out.
Widely used… in China. Best bang for buck second language is Spanish
Maybe, but not in this particular case.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#19Assuming that your team members switch Mandarin due to habit, start a practice of taking notes during the team meetings on the major points discussed in English. If you take up the role yourself all team members would have to present what is discussed in English to you. You might miss out on banter or smaller discussions during meetings, but anything directly related to the project would be clear to you.
This might not work out smoothly at first, but as long as you have the role of a note taker, the team would be more aware of your existence.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#20> I don't want to be the asshole to ask people to speak in English
As long as you think you're being an asshole by asking that, then you will be, because belief becomes reality. I'll leave the philosophy there, but that's obviously a heavy sentence.
More practically speaking, ask yourself to think about it logically. Is it an unreasonable request? Personally I think asking people to stick to business lingua franca when in the office — which happens to be international English — isn't. If you ever come to that opinion too, you'll also be comfortable with it, and _then_ I'd say you should just ask them to speak English in the office.
If it looks like you won't come to that opinion in the near future, then you have a few choices, as others have pointed out:
* Learn Mandarin
* Change team / jobs
* Be okay with being uncomfortable at potentially being left out, and with all the potential disadvantages that brings
I understand the logic is easier to come to than to action, but there it is.
It's an interesting problem, because it mirrors the remote work dilemma organisations are facing.
If they are not built for remote work from the ground up, then the people who are remote will suffer, and the organisation will suffer. If remote work is an option, there needs to be a decision made that _all_ processes are built around the notion of remote work, whether you're in the office or not.