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Ask HN: Who else is uncomfortable with hardware 2FA for personal use?

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Re: Ask HN: Who else is uncomfortable with hardware 2FA for personal use?

#11
You should really start by thinking through your so-called "threat model": what are the things you're actually trying to protect against, and what risks are you comfortable with? There's never going to be a perfectly secure solution, so you should really be trying to enumerate and assess the trade-offs you're making and whether they're worth it.

Speaking personally, I feel like my primary concerns are:

- ease of use (if something is a pain in the ass, I've found I won't use it in practice, in spite of what I know is in my best interest)

- credential stuffing/data breaches

- phishing

- getting locked out of my accounts due to losing my credentials

In particular, I think that, although a password manager plus any sort of 2FA mitigates credential stuffing concerns pretty well, HW 2FA is probably more effective against phishing compared to a TOTP app or email 2FA[1]. Purchasing a single backup key that I have a trusted family member hold on to, plus printing out recovery codes and storing them in the same place I keep other important personal documents (passport, birth certificate), is for me is a pretty reasonable hedge against lost credentials[2]. I also personally find HW 2FA to be much more convenient than TOTP authenticator apps in general[3]. Thus, I use a hardware 2FA token (at least for "important" accounts) and sleep pretty soundly at night, but that's very much the result of my own specific concerns, preferences, and priorities.

[1] A hardware key is able to validate the domain directly and mainly relies on the browser not fucking up[1a], whereas SMS/email/TOTP tokens require the user to evaluate the authenticity of the form they're filling out. Obviously there's some subtlety here, since a PW manager browser extension can also do domain validation, but at the end of the day, I think there's some non-trivial benefit to using a HW token.

[1a] Chrome's WebUSB API is an interesting case study here.

[2] I actually lost my primary HW token earlier this year, and so got the opportunity to test out my recovery plan. Having done so, I'd recommend anyone who depends on HW tokens to go through a similar exercise (preferably simulated, rather than "for real"), if nothing else than to get some very satisfying peace of mind.

[3] I suspect this is not a universally held opinion.

Re: Ask HN: Who else is uncomfortable with hardware 2FA for personal use?

#12
I have a pretty conservative (paranoid?) security posture, where I do not want any banking app or any ability to initiate or confirm financial transactions via my smartphone. I don't even use non-free apps because I refuse to have a credit card associated with my phone and its app store.

I also don't like the idea of many sites/services trying to roll their own 2FA and introducing custom phone apps. I frankly do not trust most vendors to design nor write secure software. I want an interoperable standard so I can choose a trusted authenticator and enroll it with as many different services as I need. I want to use such sites with my desktop/laptop browser and like the idea of 2FA login or transaction approvals to limit the chances of unauthorized use.

I don't mind using the phone as a 2FA token, but I want to have extra tokens as backup in case the phone is lost or damaged. The yubikey seemed attractive in that way, but support is not as good nor widespread as I would need.

I discovered absurd things like a bank allowing multiple tokens to be enrolled, but automatically expiring them if I don't use them frequently. This blocks the idea of enrolling a backup token to store safely offline.

I also want to disable any SMS/phone call/email mechanism to do account recovery by sending secrets through an insecure channel. Otherwise, the 2FA tokens are mostly useless security theater. But, for most things I would care about personally, this is not offered even if you enroll multiple tokens.

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