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Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

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Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#11

Post by hedora »

jaywalk wrote: post #9
hedora wrote: post #2

The email: New Subscription Plans for EcoStruxure Ready Smart-UPS Web Portal. ----- Hello, Thank you for being a valued APC Smart-UPS web portal customer. Out-of-box remote UPS monitoring via the SmartConnect Ethernet port is included with the purchase of every new Smart-UPS device tied to warranty. On the Standard plan, you have the following great benefits while you are under warranty: 1. Remote UPS status monitori…

It sounds like the Standard plan was always tied to being under warranty, and they haven't actually changed what's included with the Standard plan? Am I misreading something here?

The wording is ambiguous.

I feel like I'd remember the bit where they withold security updates after a few years, and they say the plan that allows security updates to keep working is new.

Either way, it's pretty crappy of them. Would love to know of an alternative that will last longer than the first set of (replacable!) batteries.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#13

Post by 0des »

Subscription things are something I wish would have died in the media wars of cable TV.

Also, on a more tangential note, allow me to gripe briefly: Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#14

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #6
dmitrygr wrote: post #5

And people ask me why I want ability to disable all automatic firmware updates (so i can vet them against people's comments when they roll out to others) and prefer to buy non-internet-connected things.

So rather than being upset a few years later when your cloud functionality isn't working you... don't use it in the first place? I guess that's a viable choice if you weren't planning to use the cloud features to begin with, but the OP seems to be using the cloud features, and is upset that he's losing access to them.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#16

Post by seanp2k2 »

hedora wrote: post #11
jaywalk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the Standard plan was always tied to being under warranty, and they haven't actually changed what's included with the Standard plan? Am I misreading something here?

The wording is ambiguous. I feel like I'd remember the bit where they withold security updates after a few years, and they say the plan that allows security updates to keep working is new. Either way, it's pretty crappy of them. Would love to know of an alternative that will last longer than the first set of (replacable!) batteries.

Check out the Eaton 5PX series. Local web-based management, no subscription BS, easy to replace standard 12v7ah batteries in a user-serviceable sled, can be used as a tower or rackmount, 120v options available, and you can find them on ebay in good condition for ~$300 shipped with some patience. Just pay attention to the ones with 5-20P plugs, but those can be used with standard household outlets via a simple mechanical "5-15p to 5-20R" adapter, assuming you won't be pulling more than 15 amps.

APC is a trash company with trash products. I've had at least 4 of their prosumer UPS models fail over the years.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#17

Post by paulgb »

0des wrote: post #13

Subscription things are something I wish would have died in the media wars of cable TV. Also, on a more tangential note, allow me to gripe briefly: Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes.

> Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes.

This is getting a bit tangential, but I've been wondering about whether the environmental footprint of grocery delivery really is lower or higher than going in-person to pick it up. Grocery stores have a huge, air-conditioned square footage just so that I can walk around and pick stuff out. Lots of food gets thrown out unused. I bring less packaging home, but stuff is still delivered to the grocery store in packages, I'm just outsourcing the guilt of throwing it out to the grocery store. Meanwhile, companies like Blue Apron and Imperfect batch deliveries to my building, so the carbon footprint of delivery is amortized over everyone who benefits from it.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#18

Post by jtbayly »

gruez wrote: post #6
dmitrygr wrote: post #5

And people ask me why I want ability to disable all automatic firmware updates (so i can vet them against people's comments when they roll out to others) and prefer to buy non-internet-connected things.

So rather than being upset a few years later when your cloud functionality isn't working you... don't use it in the first place? I guess that's a viable choice if you weren't planning to use the cloud features to begin with, but the OP seems to be using the cloud features, and is upset that he's losing access to them.

For many circumstances that makes complete sense. You don't want to become dependent on something that you can't depend on. Better to find a dependable way to work.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#19

Post by seanp2k2 »

hedora wrote: post #10
1-6 wrote: post #4

That’s why going to an open-source BMC is important.

Do you know of any open source-compatible uninterruptible power supplies? I specifically chose this model because APC has (had?) a reputation for being bulletproof. (My last UPS was also closed source. It liked to beep at odd hours, and sporadically turned itself off. At least the APC doesn't do that, I guess.) Also, at the end of the day, it's just an overpriced sealed car battery. I wasn't looking for a hobby proje…

It's more than a sealed car battery: it's also a transformer, some MOS FETS, a charger, and switcher (basically a tiny version of an Automatic Transfer Switch that a datacenter would have). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj7e3WGUKO8 has a good teardown / explanation of different types of UPSes.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#20

Post by jdlshore »

paulgb wrote: post #17
0des wrote: post #13

Subscription things are something I wish would have died in the media wars of cable TV. Also, on a more tangential note, allow me to gripe briefly: Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes.

> Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes. This is getting a bit tangential, but I've been wondering about whether the environmental footprint of grocery delivery really is lower or higher than going in-person to pick it up. Grocery stores have a huge, air-conditioned square footage just so that I can walk around and pick stuff out. Lots…

I read about a study that concluded meal delivery kits resulted in less CO2 emissions, mostly because because store-bought food required people to buy larger quantities, so there was more food waste. I don't remember the details, but remember being somewhat skeptical about the way the study was conducted.

The point being that there's lots of factors and packaging isn't necessarily the biggest one.

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