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Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#11

Post by red_throwaway »

wmf wrote: post #5

AFAIK these EULAs are legal. In reality, RED isn't exfiltrating their customers' video (the files are enormous so people would notice) and they would go out of business if they did. Probably every product has some objectionable clause in their EULA which no one reads, so you're better off not reading it and moving on with your life. If you want to be a freedom fighter, go work for the EFF; if you want to make video,…

> Probably every product has some objectionable clause in their EULA which no one reads, so you're better off not reading it and moving on with your life. If you want to be a freedom fighter, go work for the EFF; if you want to make video, make video.

Maybe a bit naive but definitely practical advice. I hear you.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#12

Post by red_throwaway »

thegagne wrote: post #9

> technical, diagnostic, usage and related information, including but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals. They are doing CYA here, but what they are likely collecting here is metadata, not the content itself. And very likely they are referring to data collected for troubleshooting purposes.

That's what I suspect too but the terms don't read like that in my opinion. I'm hoping someone can chime in and explain why the terms don't allow for the content itself to be mined.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#15

Post by red_throwaway »

Stevvo wrote: post #4

1) You misunderstood. The relevant part is "technical, diagnostic, usage and related information". Note it doesn't say 'video' anywhere there, and even it did it wouldn't hold up court.

But that sentence continues with

> including but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals

Should I be reading the "content" part as "information about your content" ? As in, metadata about the content? Lens focal lengths, recording quality, codecs, etc? That would make more sense.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#16

Post by _tom_ »

wmf wrote: post #5

AFAIK these EULAs are legal. In reality, RED isn't exfiltrating their customers' video (the files are enormous so people would notice) and they would go out of business if they did. Probably every product has some objectionable clause in their EULA which no one reads, so you're better off not reading it and moving on with your life. If you want to be a freedom fighter, go work for the EFF; if you want to make video,…

The purchase is completed before he gets it home and finds new conditions being imposed. That the part that I question about being legal.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#17

Post by red_throwaway »

paulcole wrote: post #13

Does it even matter if it’s legal or not? What would you rather do, use the camera or spend your time/money fighting it?

If it means what I think it means, I'd rather return it and invest in a company that doesn't abuse their users.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#18

Post by mhitza »

Stevvo wrote: post #4

1) You misunderstood. The relevant part is "technical, diagnostic, usage and related information". Note it doesn't say 'video' anywhere there, and even it did it wouldn't hold up court.

> but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals.

Content might be anything stored on the camera in this case. I'm also glossing over the followup clause that states they are in their full right to remove in a future update features you already have.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#19

Post by wmf »

_tom_ wrote: post #16
wmf wrote: post #5

AFAIK these EULAs are legal. In reality, RED isn't exfiltrating their customers' video (the files are enormous so people would notice) and they would go out of business if they did. Probably every product has some objectionable clause in their EULA which no one reads, so you're better off not reading it and moving on with your life. If you want to be a freedom fighter, go work for the EFF; if you want to make video,…

The purchase is completed before he gets it home and finds new conditions being imposed. That the part that I question about being legal.

Every product works this way.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#20

Post by red_throwaway »

_tom_ wrote: post #16
wmf wrote: post #5

AFAIK these EULAs are legal. In reality, RED isn't exfiltrating their customers' video (the files are enormous so people would notice) and they would go out of business if they did. Probably every product has some objectionable clause in their EULA which no one reads, so you're better off not reading it and moving on with your life. If you want to be a freedom fighter, go work for the EFF; if you want to make video,…

The purchase is completed before he gets it home and finds new conditions being imposed. That the part that I question about being legal.

Yes, this! The sales person made absolutely no mention of any licensing terms or agreements that I would need to sign off on before my camera became usable as a camera.
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