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Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

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11–20 of 71 posts

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#11
I'm in the process of attempting this. I'm taking some classes at law school, but I'm only studying towards the Bachelor of Laws, not towards the kind of university credential that you need as a prerequisite for being allowed to sit the bar exam to become a real lawyer. I'm instead using it as an opportunity to try to find ways of combining tech knowledge and legal knowledge and getting interesting work out of it that draws on both but doesn't require a bar exam.

I think there are some interesting avenues opening up there, around Legal Tech and also around the general fact that I expect that tech will become more compliance-driven in the future.

I mean: When I started out in the field, it was pretty much this unregulated wild west. When I retire, I expect that working in a tech company will feel a lot like working in a bank does today. In a bank, lawyers and law-savvy managers are hugely influential, because everyone else struggles to navigate all the nuance of the regulation that affects them, and it's not even just about money, but about potentially going to jail or not.

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#12
Word of caution. UC Davis computer science graduates could not do patent law when I wanted to. Why? Because the dean Norman S. Matloff didn't fill out the paper work. So - "computer science" wasn't considered an engineering field at the time. It gets worse, I was the only one to make the request EVER. Make sure you research if your computer science department would be considered a valid engineering bachelors under the patent law offices. You may be able to talk to the dean to spend the time and get it done.

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#13

I started to - I went to law school with the intent of switching, and ultimately cut that short to go back to tech. I just didn't enjoy working with attorneys. I'm sure some people do, so my rejection of that industry should be taken with a grain of salt... but I'd take time to get to know who your professional community would be before committing to such a change.

Wise choice. I've known attorneys professionally and have some in my extended family. I've never met a truly happy attorney yet.

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#14

I started to - I went to law school with the intent of switching, and ultimately cut that short to go back to tech. I just didn't enjoy working with attorneys. I'm sure some people do, so my rejection of that industry should be taken with a grain of salt... but I'd take time to get to know who your professional community would be before committing to such a change.

Wise choice. I've known attorneys professionally and have some in my extended family. I've never met a truly happy attorney yet.

I have but they're also professors and they teach so I'm guessing that changes the dynamic a lot.

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#15
post #7

I started to - I went to law school with the intent of switching, and ultimately cut that short to go back to tech. I just didn't enjoy working with attorneys. I'm sure some people do, so my rejection of that industry should be taken with a grain of salt... but I'd take time to get to know who your professional community would be before committing to such a change.

I'm curious. What was your experience working with attorneys? I heard an anecdote from a law student that the classmates were highly competitive about grades. Less anecdotally, there was a recent Financial Times article about corporate lawyers at one firm billing ~100 hours each week, and others sleeping only ~5 hours a night. It also reported a more accurate measurement from a survey: "That level of exhaustion is ta…

Though: Software Engineering is not doing all that well on the mental health front either, as far as professions go. See [1] which I found kind of shocking, though I don't know what those numbers look like for other professions or in the general population.

[1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-demog...

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#16
I went from being a biomedical engineer -> M&A lawyer -> software engineer with a side legal practice.

I learned that law school was intellectually rewarding and the practice of law can be fun, but I could not stop thinking about software that I wanted to build to improve the practice of law. I took that as a sign that I needed to spend some of my working life being a software engineer.

I think what I have now is a great balance. A stable job as an engineer, with a law practice where I only take on clients that are nice to work with.

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#17

Worked as patent agent. Back in tech AMA. + extremely independent + lots of reading about different subjects + less time working on tooling or “chores” + admin to manage your calendar - much higher productivity expectations than tech - high intensity - varied knowledge of attorneys

How useful, and how common, would a PhD in life sciences (biology/biochemistry/genetics/etc.) to become a patent agent? I anecdotally heard and read of a few people who struggled to find industry work with that degree, and were then recommended to try and become patent agents/attorneys as the PhD should allegedly give them an advantage in work applications.

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#18

I've got a friend who made the transition. Ultimately, he went to law school because he didn't feel there was career growth as just a patent agent... you've got to be a full-on attorney if you want growth in that marketplace. I'm recalling a little bit of his rationale, but it seems that if you're curious about the law, it's a decent way to get exposure without the total commitment of law school, and you get paid whi…

I would agree that the real money is always in being a lawyer.

Also if you have web development & SEO skills, legal marketing is stupidly lucrative and you need to be a lawyer to actually take advantage of co-counsel fees. You could advertise personal injury on the side and outsource your case qualifying to a few big firms and just collect money by selling leads.

(I worked at a law firm doing exactly this for 3 years)

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#19

I started to - I went to law school with the intent of switching, and ultimately cut that short to go back to tech. I just didn't enjoy working with attorneys. I'm sure some people do, so my rejection of that industry should be taken with a grain of salt... but I'd take time to get to know who your professional community would be before committing to such a change.

Wise choice. I've known attorneys professionally and have some in my extended family. I've never met a truly happy attorney yet.

I’m a truly happy attorney! So is my wife. But it’s a client service job. I think a lot of Americans suffer from delusions of grandeur, especially more highly educated ones, and the reality of being a cog in the machine really bursts their bubble. I think of myself more like a very skilled tradesman. People need legal representation, just like they need electricians. My trade is intellectually stimulating and highly remunerative, so why shouldn’t I be happy?

Re: Ask HN: Who has changed careers from engineer to patent agent/lawyer?

#20
I came very close do doing this in the early 2000's. Though my degree was in Electrical Engineering, my professional career has been all software. (Full disclosure: I was actually a double major, but was a semester shy of finishing CS and finishing EE meant I had to graduate).

As others have noted, your degree will determine whether you can actually sit for the patent bar and be a registered patent agent. Certain degrees or showing equivalent level of training are required.

geofcline's comment covers the high level differences (+ extremely independent + lots of reading about different subjects + less time working on tooling or “chores” + admin to manage your calendar - much higher productivity expectations than tech - high intensity - varied knowledge of attorneys) so I'm going to talk about the part of the process I know about.

When I applied to college, I couldn't decide between Engineering and Law. I ended up going with Engineering, but 5 years into my career it was time to change jobs, so I figured I might as well try the law route. The path I chose was to become a Technology Specialist (or similarly worded role) at a big law firm.

A Technology Specialist was someone with an Engineering degrees who helped the actual patent attorneys evaluate and draft patents. The law firm would pay a salary (only about 5% than my Engineering salary at the time) and would both pay for law school and guarantee you a job after school. At the time, starting attorney salary was about 50% more than my current salary, so that was quite a deal.

I sent out 5 resumes, got 3 interviews, and one job offer. I joined a firm and was one of about 25 Technology Specialists. Here's where it got interesting. I was very unique in that I had a) actual experience b) a degree that wasn't biology or chemistry and c) the only one with _only_ a master's degree. Every other "tech spec" was a PhD that noped out of post-doc life of long hours and low pay for long hours and high pay. I later found out that CS/EE types were a harder sell because they typically had to take a pay cut to join.

While I saw some cool and innovative tech, and got to meet some names that anyone in tech at the time would know, I saw just as much bogus business process and software patent work. I had a beautiful office with city views and an amazing secretary (patent secretary itself is a skilled, well-paying role), and billed out at $250/hour. The job itself was fairly boring, though. I worked mostly by myself and was creating nothing. After a year I went back to tech and joined a startup.

FWIW, the life of an attorney doing patent prosecution seemed much more chill than those doing litigation. I think part of the reason is that there are only so many people with advanced engineering degrees required to be understand and write patents who also want to be lawyers. For myself, I showed up at 7am to take a couple hours to study for the LSAT, and I generally stayed until 5:30pm to take advantage of free dinner in the cafeteria. The office (and this was early 2000's, so not a ton of WFH tech) was generally empty before 9 and after 6.

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