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Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

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11–20 of 71 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#11
post #9

Every time I see news coverage of technical areas in which I have expertise, and they get something glaringly wrong, I wonder for a moment how much other stuff they're getting wrong when I don't notice because it's outside of my specialization. Frankly terrifying, since the news shapes opinions for most people.

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Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#12
Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray [Gell-Mann]’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#13
post #6

> Say, you come to Hackernews/Reddit and usually see people on these sites as knowledgeable people. This may be part of the rub: there are a bunch of bullshitters on the internet.

I don't think it's a problem we can blame on technology.

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#14
In my case, it just reaffirms the notion that being a smart fool is not really an oxymoron, and that people at large are fools, myself included.

We all sometimes have a tendency to talk about the things we know jack about while posing as experts because we read an article in the Guardian about it once, or an abstract from a paper. Some more than others.

In the world of show business and television, I’ve seen celebrities — singers, stand up comedians, those kinds of people — often being asked about their stance on complicated political issues or life advice as such — and they spoke bullshit with a mild air of authority instead of running away, which a sensible person should have done. The thing, though, is, that the fact they are celebrities means there are crowds of fans who will listen to whatever they say as if it was God’s own truth.

Hey, you can treat what I just wrote as uninformed bullshit, likely you even have reasons to, like data to contradict my statements. It’s ok. I’m likely a fool.

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#15
> But when they talk about a topic you know very well, you realize they aren't that smart.

In the historical academic and intellectual epicenter of the US (East Coast college towns), the rule about not talking about a subject in which you are not an expert is still somewhat followed.

It is completely shattered in SV and coastal cities + DC

Case in point:

"Zero cases by the end of April, bruh...you gotta stop panicking bruh!" [0] AKA, the reason why Boston can't stand Elon Musk.

[0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960?lang...

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#16
post #3

The Gell-Mann-Amnesia effect probably comes the closest to what you are looking for. It doesn't refer to the loss of trust but rather to the effect that we tend to forget that a source is not trustworthy. In the words of Michael Crichton: > “Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business.…

That’s exactly this!!! Thank you very much. To what extent you think this should affect our trust on news sources/websites like Hackernews?

After having been fairly close to a story that made national news some years back, and more recently been involved with an organization that gets/got a fair bit of local media coverage, I think I have a pretty good yardstick for accuracy or the lack thereof. The existence of some astonishingly bad journalism does not preclude the existence of the remarkably good; I can't damn them all, but I can say they're all worthless until I give myself a reason to trust them.

Before even trying to assess the accuracy of a story, I have to take a step back and assess the competence of the source. Read some other stuff they've written. Is any of it on matters I'm well-acquainted with? Do they seem fuzzy on basic facts, or have clear and cogent explanations? Does any of it open my eyes to new perspectives even on things I thought I knew? Is the new story in a field they seem to have competence in?

Then, I look at the facts presented in the story in question. Assume I don't have my own sources for the facts, but I can look at how they're presented: Are they clearly explained and sourced? Do they have the logic wrapped in a lot of inverting layers (judge blocks appeal of injunction against measure that would've prohibited another activity, wait what? is that a green light or a red for the activity?) which they successfully unwrap for the reader, or are we left to fend for ourselves? Can I take some of the named sources and go look at their own writings and see if they're being quoted accurately?

Then I look at the emotional language surrounding the factual statements. Do they seem to have a horse in this race and incentive to push one side, or is their opinion merely a product of being informed about it? (I'm willing to accept that researching a story naturally produces an emotional narrative, and conveying that can be an important part of context, but the facts should shape the narrative, not the other way around.) Is there enough information that I can imagine the other perspectives that might surround these facts? Do I want to go dig some up?

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#17

Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray [Gell-Mann]’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “w…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#18
There's a big difference between being smart and being knowledgeable. Smart is the ability to process information and make deductions. Knowledge is information itself.

Or, to put it the other way, stupidity and ignorance are two separate things. All of us are ignorant of more things than we're knowledgeable about -- even the geniuses among us.

Get a really smart person to talk about something that they have little special knowledge about, and they aren't going to seem any smarter about it than most other people.

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#19
post #4

I don't think being smart has anything to do with this. You may want to replace "smart" with "knowledgeable about a topic I'm interested in".

Yeah, there is a very big difference between having a strong grasp of a particular domain of knowledge and being generally intelligent: that is, able to reason and make logical inferences in the absence of knowledge.

Re: Ask HN: Are people only smart until they talk about things you know more about?

#20
You should look up Gell-Mann amnesia. The basic premise IIRC is that the media's credibility is undeserved. You go through a newspaper reading about this and that, nodding along. When you happen upon an article in a field you know a lot about you realise how clueless the reporters writing the article are. You turn the page, get to the next article and forget all about reporters's cluelessness or the fact that it might extend to other fields you do not know that much about.
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