Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#11
Define "passion". Do you mean:

1. Someone who will respond to your above-and-beyond commitment to them (in compensation, tools, respect, etc.) with above-and-beyond results?

2. Someone who will give above-and-beyond results even when given lousy tools, a poor work environment, unrealistic expectations, and mediocre compensation?

#1 is fair to ask. #2 is not.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#12
Good people are often passionate to begin with. If they lose their passion that's probably the fault of their employer.

If they're not passionate to begin with maybe they need to be motivated. Money does it for some people but it's not everything. Interest is very important too.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#14
Sell me on your project, infect me with your own passion for it. (You do have a lot of belief in your project, right? It's not just something you think might work, maybe? If your idea is mediocre and you know it then this ain't gonna happen.)

Then pay me enough to make it worth my while. I have my own projects that I'm passionate about and there's so many hours in the day; every minute I'm spending working on your idea is a minute I'm deferring my own visions. You want me to pour my time into your idea? I'd better get more than just enough money to live on - I want to be able to not worry about looking for work for a while after I'm done with your project, so I can spend my time working on my own stuff that matters intensely to me and me alone. If you can't give me tons of money then I'd better have a serious stake in the eventual profits, and you'd better not want me to work on it for very long.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#15
Passion cannot be faked. And you can't buy true passion. Even if someone offered me $10 billion a year to do something, I'd be passionate about the money and not about my job (well, unless my job is interesting). As others have said, if you can't give high base pay, give equity. Heck, give equity anyway. Ownership helps with passion.

Give someone interesting an interesting problem. Don't hire assholes (in fact, fire assholes). Create a community where genuine mistakes aren't a big deal to their employment (and avoid cover your ass) and the passion will come. Support creativity, support big ideas, support some of the random, one off ideas that come out of creative people (easter eggs, hack weeks) and it'll pay for itself.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#16
I suspect you might be from India, so let me tell about a few things that bugged me about life as software developer in Bangalore.

I don't mind being paid below market but I definitely need something to make up for this. You could this (following in no particular order): (1) profit sharing (2) equity (3) a higher-than-market level of responsibility for a given experience level and (4) interesting work.

The other thing is that every time I start a new position I'm full of excitement and passion but this excitement drains out of me pretty quickly thanks to terrible decision making by the management, my discovery that I got lowballed on my offer or by others in the team being hired at levels disproportionate to their ability, or by my being forced to work on something completely different from what I promised when I was made the offer, or my discovery that the management are bunch of penny-wise pound-foolish cheapskates.

The TLDR here is that you need to be honest and extremely fair in your dealings. Always ask yourself whether you'd want to continue if you were in the employees position.

Don't ever fall into the trap of thinking that you are doing the employee a favor by giving them a job. Anybody worth hiring can pretty much get an offer with a phone call or two in the current hiring market.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#18

I think it's probably a required thing for every employee.

I know. But is it really true, I fail to understand how a developer can be passionate about some business and yet launch 2-5 products a year. Is that passion for the business/ industry or passion to develop skills? Most of the good programmers do it, right? Work on 4 products a year in multiple industries. Should you hire someone who is passionate about the cause or one who is passionate about code(read growth/career…

Obviously both is best, but you're not always going to find someone passionate about the business. You should never compromise on finding someone passionate about the code though.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#19
I think it depends on whether an employer views passion as a character trait or a byproduct. The distinction is very important.

I'm an employer (and a programmer) and I view passion as a byproduct of developers being properly incentivized to do something they find fascinating.

That incentive varies from programmer to programmer. Incentives can be cash, equity, profit sharing, flexible hours, encouragement and recognition, kick-ass equipment, a steady supply of new tech toys to play with, paid time and travel to conferences, etc.

The second aspect, of course, the truly hard one, is keeping people fascinated. Everything gets boring as hell eventually. As an employer I actually find this harder than determining what incentives people respond to because I'm personally aware of how quickly programmers get bored.

Re: Ask HN: Is passion a fair thing to ask for from an employee?

#20
I don't think it is a fair thing to ask for, but it is certainly a fair thing for you to look for.

It is the job of the company to impart passion, set an example and hold on to the people that get behind the company vision.

Without that vision or passion from the founders, none of the employees will have it and you are left with salary trumping everything (because there is nothing else, except maybe a small group of people you like hanging out with).

If you are passionate and convey that clearly, passion will trump salary for the right people, and those are the ones you want on your team.

Post reply on HN