I have occasionally wondered about writing a programming language optimised for spoken word; not just the basics of trying to avoid sigils and punctuation, and of course significant whitespace, but also trying to make it possible to write code that has "metre" and rhyme to it.
Ask HN: Works of fiction that have inspired you to solve programming problems?
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Re: Ask HN: Works of fiction that have inspired you to solve programming problems?
#12- The Machine Stops, E.M. Forster
- Erewhon, Samuel Butler
- The Alchemist, Paulo Coelho
The styles and formats are completely different. The only common thing I can think of is that there's this invisible guiding force in all of them, whether it's good or bad. The Machine Stops is a dystopia about technology in absence of a soulful humanity. Erewhon is wild. Truly wild. It has to be a genre all its own, something akin to Darwinian technopunk. The Alchemist is probably one of those novels you could riff on with a yoga instructor and have a good conversation :joy:. It's classical magical surrealism, but it's a good story about a person's lifetime journey. Nothing deep, but it's wholesome.
Edit: also will add A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter Miller Jr., and Titus Groan by Mervyn Peake.
Re: Ask HN: Works of fiction that have inspired you to solve programming problems?
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
People such as yourself get a hard-on about Godel, Escher, Bach. Myself? If I want to learn about basic number theory and recursion, I'll google it. Verbosity is an existential threat.
GEB is pretty dense. Comparing GEB to short stories by Borges, I feel like Borges is able to capture the same ideas (recursion, infinite permutations) in a more engaging way and at a fraction of GEB's length.
Re: Ask HN: Works of fiction that have inspired you to solve programming problems?
#14This is the most interesting Ask HN I've seen in some time, but I'm afraid I have no good answer to it. I don't listen to Bach, I listen to absolute trash dance music while programming, and lately the pandemic has seemingly killed my desire to read fiction. I have no idea why. I have occasionally wondered about writing a programming language optimised for spoken word ; not just the basics of trying to avoid sigils an…
I found an interesting recent discussion on Lambda the Ultimate about human cognition, coding, and programming language syntax:
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/5614
The MIT neuroscience research that this LtU thread refers to was also discussed on HN:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434854
And another HN thread on perceiving code vs written word:
Re: Ask HN: Works of fiction that have inspired you to solve programming problems?
#15This is the most interesting Ask HN I've seen in some time, but I'm afraid I have no good answer to it. I don't listen to Bach, I listen to absolute trash dance music while programming, and lately the pandemic has seemingly killed my desire to read fiction. I have no idea why. I have occasionally wondered about writing a programming language optimised for spoken word ; not just the basics of trying to avoid sigils an…
I have had a strange intellectual interest in the "human-language-likeness" of programming languages for a long time. (In a way, I suppose it is the core of my original question.) Which existing languages seem to be closest to that "metre and rhyme" point in your opinion? Lisp, Forth, Perl, Rebol? I found an interesting recent discussion on Lambda the Ultimate about human cognition, coding, and programming language s…
Perl can be close to this, and Larry Wall was fond of this aspect of the language, but it's also one of the most sigil-infested languages that isn't APL. APL itself stands proudly at the other end of the spectrum, for pure mathematicians.
Lisp has the problem that brackets aren't readily pronouncable and deeply-nested clauses aren't idiomatic English. Although I have noticed that programmers are far more likely to speak English with nested clauses than non-programmers.
Forth relies too heavily on the stack for my taste; ideally for me languages specify the variables they operate on by name, although an English-like language could clearly use "it" in the way that Perl uses "$_".
Rebol, like LOGO, is clearly Lisp with square brackets. Tcl is another candidate in this area that I have a soft spot for, but its reliance on string operations means it needs escape characters a lot.
Ironically I think the closest may be COBOL and its predecessor, Grace Hopper's FLOW-MATIC. These languages "correctly" end statements with a full stop "." rather than the unnatural semicolon ";" or the invisible newline. The problem is that COBOL pre-dates structured programming and object orientation by a long way. I don't think attempting to adapt them directly would be a good idea, but building something with some of the same principles might work.