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Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

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Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#11

It seems to me that you're problem isn't that you don't have motivation it's that you need rewards right ways. I used to be the same way. Learning a few tricks in each of those areas gives you a thrill, but once that thrill wears off you lose interest and go off to find your next thrill. Grades are just a slightly longer term reward. You work hard for a few weeks or a month then you get rewarded with an A or a B. Ins…

How to trick myself into building an awesome web project? Remove all software other than a text editor? Wouldn't I need at least a web browser? :-)

I think it's not that easy in all cases. However, I already practice the food use-case you've mentioned (I simply don't buy unhealthy food).

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#12
post #6

Wow, hits close to home. I tend to see it as the bi-polar disorder of learning. There are periods of maniacal interest in a certain topic. I can acquire vast knowledge in a matter of very short time yet it always quickly wears of. The lack of immediate recognition, reward etc. is definitely a factor. I too always knew school didn't mean much, but being straight A has always been sort of a thing I had to do, it was my…

> I know I have all the capability to deliver crazy performance. And hey, I still do from time to time, it's not like we're doomed. We have already proved that we have the mental capability to achieve great things

Yes, sure we are. But isn't it sad how much of our potential is wasted?

> now it's time to utilize it.

Motivating words, but I need more than that ;-)

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#13
post #12
post #6

Wow, hits close to home. I tend to see it as the bi-polar disorder of learning. There are periods of maniacal interest in a certain topic. I can acquire vast knowledge in a matter of very short time yet it always quickly wears of. The lack of immediate recognition, reward etc. is definitely a factor. I too always knew school didn't mean much, but being straight A has always been sort of a thing I had to do, it was my…

> I know I have all the capability to deliver crazy performance. And hey, I still do from time to time, it's not like we're doomed. We have already proved that we have the mental capability to achieve great things Yes, sure we are. But isn't it sad how much of our potential is wasted? > now it's time to utilize it. Motivating words, but I need more than that ;-)

Wasted sounds too dramatic, misallocated I would say.

I would love to be able to achieve a 100% focus at will. But I think acquiring knowledge in so many different fields has also allowed me to have a pretty unique personality that I'm satisfied with. Sometimes I look at those people that are completely sucked into one thing and I just think I wouldn't like to be like them. I would love to have tons and tons of money, but would I want to be Warren Buffet? No way.

For example I spent a year learning Chinese (completed an equivalent of 3 years of study for a 'normal' person + naturally expanded over the next year without effort or loosing too much time). I know it's something pretty much without use unless I want to get a crappy job, but I'm happy I did. I just like having that extra knowledge. It's no different than how I want to have a fancy car. If I was to put a price tag on that knowledge it would definitely be millions.

My point is that although there's no doubt we need to improve let's do it our way. A good analogy is when you play a game, say soccer and you invent your own way to kick the ball, you know how other, better people kick it, you know your way is 'wrong' but it's so much more fun. And who knows maybe one day it turns out you can still win that way.

Let's not get depressed (you sound a little hopeless there, haha). We can adjust this and that and we'll be fine.

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#14
post #10
post #8

Here's the problem, as I see it: who is your manager? Because a manager is normally paid a lot of money to help you be productive. It's a hard job, the kind people get degrees in and work for decades at before they can do it well. If you're trying to work for yourself, then your manager is you. You're giving yourself a very difficult job, a job that you're trying to do at the same time as your creative work (and, if…

First of all, thanks for the helpful input. > Here's my suggestion for you: Be a manager. Set aside an amount of time each day to work as your manager. Ask yourself about your goals, figure out what you need to excel at those goals, and make sure that you get what you need. Is your work structured the right way? Is what you're doing now working? If you can't figure out what to do next as a manager, go learn. Read a b…

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven Covey is a pretty seminal personal management book. It's my top recommendation in terms of "foundational" material. It's not got much in the way of practical tools, but the ideas are applicable everywhere.

I would recommend Drive by Dan Pink if you're interested in learning more about creative motivation. It's pretty short, and actually very well summarised here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

Peopleware by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister is very good programmer-specific management material. They cite a lot of work benchmarking the productivity of different workplaces, so it's very "x is good, x is bad".

Jim Collins' Good to Great is an examination of businesses that succeed vs fail, and the attributes that get them there, it's essentially an extended summary of a longitudinal study he and his team did of businesses that outperformed the stock market by a high factor over 10 years. It's more leadership than management, but still very useful.

One that I haven't read yet (damn my stupidly big reading list) but recommend on reputation alone is First, Break All The Rules by Marcus Buckingham and Curt Coffman. Here's a summary: http://www.slideshare.net/gregcrouch/executive-summary-first...

I share your frustration about blah-blah blog posts. With the exception of First, Break All The Rules (which I haven't read yet) and 7 Habits (which I forgive because it's so damn good), the books I mention are based on actual research which is cited in the book, not just some dude going "I think this because I know stuff". Because they're books for busy people, they have summaries and bolded sections and callout boxes too. :)

Overall, though, I would caution you to not put the cart before the horse. There are a thousand books on management that could teach you something new, but it will all just go on the big pile of irrelevant information unless you actually need it. You won't unless you're actively trying to manage. If you start by spending that time you'll be much better placed to contextualise the knowledge and, therefore, actually benefit from it.

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#15
post #10
post #8

Here's the problem, as I see it: who is your manager? Because a manager is normally paid a lot of money to help you be productive. It's a hard job, the kind people get degrees in and work for decades at before they can do it well. If you're trying to work for yourself, then your manager is you. You're giving yourself a very difficult job, a job that you're trying to do at the same time as your creative work (and, if…

First of all, thanks for the helpful input. > Here's my suggestion for you: Be a manager. Set aside an amount of time each day to work as your manager. Ask yourself about your goals, figure out what you need to excel at those goals, and make sure that you get what you need. Is your work structured the right way? Is what you're doing now working? If you can't figure out what to do next as a manager, go learn. Read a b…

Barbara Sher - Refuse to choose. It's book about people similar to you.

Also, if you work well with a particular extrinsic structure (and enjoy it), why not leverage that. did you enjoy the uni projects that were for grades? Why not create the same type of conditions. All motivation is ultimately intrinsic anyway.

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#17
post #11

It seems to me that you're problem isn't that you don't have motivation it's that you need rewards right ways. I used to be the same way. Learning a few tricks in each of those areas gives you a thrill, but once that thrill wears off you lose interest and go off to find your next thrill. Grades are just a slightly longer term reward. You work hard for a few weeks or a month then you get rewarded with an A or a B. Ins…

How to trick myself into building an awesome web project? Remove all software other than a text editor? Wouldn't I need at least a web browser? :-) I think it's not that easy in all cases. However, I already practice the food use-case you've mentioned (I simply don't buy unhealthy food).

No it's not easy, but removing distractions helps keep you on track.

A lot of people on HN I've heard say they use a web filter on themselves. Only allowing most web sites for certain times of day, otherwise they're locked down to "productive" web sites.

Also, when you're looking for something new to learn instead of picking a new breadth topic, pick a depth topic you don't know about and learn about in one of your hand picked languages. Like if you're learning about networking or machine learning, use a language that you want to know better, but have "lost interest" in instead of one you already know well.

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#18
post #9
post #4

I'm pretty sure you just described me to a tee. I completely understand how it is to hop from hobby to hobby, trying to find the next new novelty. In high school I spent a lot of time learning tools but never really made anything with them. I must have started 50 games, but would always throw them away at 300 lines of code because they were not interesting anymore. One time I got the idea to make a Flash cartoon webs…

> Perfectionism is a nasty beast. Are you a perfectionist too? Unfortunately, yes. And I'm definitely treating life as an optimization problem. However, most of the time I don't see the big picture. For example, I spend hours or days figuring out the "best" piece of hardware to buy (e.g., a new monitor), and then another day trying find the best offer. Usually I get frustrated the more options I find. Quite often, af…

If you are an over optimiser (i.e. the word BEST appears in your head when you try and do something rather than Good enough) you should read The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz (http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_ch...).

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#19
For me, addressing underlying health issues has helped. I also read a book a long time ago about "psychology" (for lack of a better word) which talked about how people have different profiles for what stuff they will do in varying amounts. You figure out how much of different types of things you need to do and find a lifestyle that gets the results you want (in terms of money or whatever) and do that.

Real life example: I'm a middle-of-the-road extrovert, so I need a certain amount of social interaction but I have my limits. When deprived of the minimum necessary amount of social interaction, my functioning is impaired. When I reach my limit, it's time to stop and go be alone for a bit. That doesn't mean I'm a flake and now abandoning folks or some such. It means my "budget" has been spent for this particular thing and I need to recharge before I can do more of it.

Folks on HN sometimes talk about being only able to code X number of hours per week and no more, so they can't manage to work full time as a coder and also do a side project. Others talk about needing to code a certain amount and being unable to just stop until they have done a certain amount of problem solving or the like. Some "needs" can be channeled somewhat into different pursuits but when the limit is reached, that's all you can do. So maybe part of the issue is that being in college uses up so much of what you have to give that there isn't enough left to finish something else on top of it? If so, then doing a start-up full time might work but trying to do it on the side might not.

Re: Ask HN: No intrinisic motivation to build stuff

#20
I think you are perfectly normal. Suspect that your frustration comes from comparing yourself to other people who are intrinsically very different to you.

You come across as being smart, clever and high energy levels. Try stuff that is much harder intellectually, physically, etc. Get out of your comfort zone. You might find your passion in the most unlikely place.

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