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Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

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Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#11
post #4

What about approaching some charity? (1) You learn to listen to real customer (2) and should be a good networking

If not for charity there's also the possibility of doing something cheap for portfolio fodder. Then again, cheap seems to bring out the wrong type of person you want to work for.

You could also subcontract for someone you know that does web development. They get less work to do, you get experience, you probably still get paid.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#12
I'd recommend building a project for a friend (for free) to start your portfolio, they will appreciate it and you'll use it. Do this for a couple of projects. Most programmers I know think they're selling their soul when they do free work, but in this case theres no shame in doing it, its like doing an internship on your terms.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#13
post #9

The things you're making aren't fake, if they're functional, they're perfectly real. No one cares that you built it for yourself, you built it and that shows you know how. Dont call them fake, call them personal projects that demonstrate your ability.

That's why I've put in quotes ;) ... to emphasize that I believe (or hope) that these projects are perfectly real-world and relatively diverse in order to be able to start doing more similar real-world + real-money projects. My question in regard was basically whether these "fake" personal projects can convince a prospective client that I'm for real. That is, if these personal projects are not on separate domains (li…

You could, relatively easily, buy 'real' domains and host them there. It's not 'that' expensive. $9/year for a domain.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#14
I've been freelancing and doing contract work my entire career - nigh on 13 years now. There's a mass of things I could tell you, but I'll try be succinct and tell you what I think will be most valuable.

Technology doesn't pay the bills. Clean code, good architecture, solid frameworks - they count far, far less than you wish they did. As developers, we're systems oriented, looking for the ideal approach, the 'right' way. 90% of clients are more worried about the right shade of cornflower blue. Don't lose your idealism about making use of the right tech stack, and where pragmatic, don't miss an opportunity to explain why it's important.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that's what counts for clients. There will be exceptions, but generally the guy with the purse strings isn't technical, and is in no position to appraise your use of tech.

You need to practice business as much as you plan to demonstrate technical competence. Negotiation, selling, conflict resolution (it'll happen), knowing when to walk away (that too) and probably the hardest thing - embracing risk. Many chant the 'fail fast' mantra, but I'd rather point out that our caveman brains are badly suited to accepting that risk is vital. Cold calling is terrifying, as is naming a price, telling a client they're wrong, and so many parts of simply staying alive.

Otherwise, go make some luck.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#15
post #14

I've been freelancing and doing contract work my entire career - nigh on 13 years now. There's a mass of things I could tell you, but I'll try be succinct and tell you what I think will be most valuable. Technology doesn't pay the bills. Clean code, good architecture, solid frameworks - they count far, far less than you wish they did. As developers, we're systems oriented, looking for the ideal approach, the 'right'…

This is accurate. Depending on your situation, clients appreciate getting things done. A very good client of mine doesn't care what I do, as long as I get it done. It might take me three hours to research how a given legacy PHP CMS works just to do a simple code change, but as long as they can come to me with something and be sure I'll have it done at a not-too-great cost, even if it's not my area of expertise, they're happy and I'm happy.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#16
If you don't have any projects to show them, just don't talk about it unless they ask, instead talk about what you are going to build them. That has worked splendidly for me.

I honestly believe that most people don't at all care what you've done before if you just talk to them like you know what you are doing. When you see a job post asking for some feature, just tell them how you are planning on executing it.

Also always ask at least one question if you can. It means you've taken an interest and that you seem like you want to cover every base. (or so I choose to believe) That especially works on dating sites.

When I started out in August I had virtually nothing to show because while I had done plenty of programming before, I had never executed and polished a whole project. All my experience was stretched out across years of tinkering, school and reading.

Alternatively, if you want to build on real things you could send me an email as I get overloaded with work sometimes.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#17
post #4

What about approaching some charity? (1) You learn to listen to real customer (2) and should be a good networking

If not for charity there's also the possibility of doing something cheap for portfolio fodder. Then again, cheap seems to bring out the wrong type of person you want to work for. You could also subcontract for someone you know that does web development. They get less work to do, you get experience, you probably still get paid.

I find its better to not work for cheap, either charge full price or work for free, demonstrate your value or donate time, dont undervalue yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#18
post #14

I've been freelancing and doing contract work my entire career - nigh on 13 years now. There's a mass of things I could tell you, but I'll try be succinct and tell you what I think will be most valuable. Technology doesn't pay the bills. Clean code, good architecture, solid frameworks - they count far, far less than you wish they did. As developers, we're systems oriented, looking for the ideal approach, the 'right'…

> Technology doesn't pay the bills. [...] Don't lose your idealism about making use of the right tech stack, and where pragmatic, don't miss an opportunity to explain why it's important. [...] generally the guy with the purse strings isn't technical, and is in no position to appraise your use of tech.

You know, I've never understood this line of argument. The way I see it, the client is either clever enough to see technology really is not important to the problem at hand or too dumb to realize it is. If the former, you'd be guilty of overengineering and missing your client's objective (by being too costly, too complicated, etc). If the latter, why would you care to explain and "do the right thing" (the client will not pay for things he doesn't know are important)?

There are many technical people who feel underappreciated by their clients or management peers. I think the only solution is to find out if the wizardry really is needed in the first place; if it's not, do the minimum (if you accept at all); if it is, then let the bozo fail and either compete (you know something they don't) or leave for a better client/customer/mgmt. Will pay better and you get to keep your sanity and pride.

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#19
Focus on what you don't know. With 8 years of C++ you don't need to be doing 50% of the things on that list. Web development isn't that hard :) For example, you don't mention anything about html, css or javascript. Or design.

If you think these things aren't important; think again. Most clients will be more happy with tight html/css that sticks to the design they agreed to than they will ever be with your server side code.

On that note: if you have professional designs and you get clients to sign off on them 100% at the start, you will have far fewer problems at the end. People tend to change their minds 500 times about what they want things to look like, and it will cost you money if you just let it drag on arbitrarily. First it's "can you please move that text over a bit", then it's "oh i really want to add a social sharing widget, if you don't mind", then "oooh yeah we really wanted a gallery of pictures here.. and please could they connect to my flikr account, and umm.." etc. If you have a contract (an image) of every page then they sign off it, or pay more at the end for adjustments (at double the rate, of course ;))

Re: Ask HN: Beginning freelance web developer: no clients - portfolio?

#20
post #3

Build fake projects? Geez, I think you already have the wrong mindset for starting your own business. If you are going to put the time into building a site, try to monetize that thing (no fakes.) Who knows, down the road you might be making enough money off that site or collection of sites so that you can quit client work. I also think that you are suffering from the classic symptom of trying to get everything just r…

i wish i had read this few years ago. great advice.
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