Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 250 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#11

Post by tweetle_beetle »

detaro wrote: post #6

Printers are cheap and widely available, which leaves a DIY printer which is going to be slower, more error-prone and more expensive as a very niche idea. There is a clear benefit to buying or building an open hobby 3D printer, whereas that's harder to argue for a 2D one - while there is a lot of crap around, there's enough workable choices, aftermarket inks/toner works, you likely won't be modifying/tuning a 2D prin…

I also wouldn't underestimate the challenge of moving paper. I once spoke to someone who worked for Kodak (or a similar company - it was a long time ago) who said that they acquired another printer company purely because their paper moving technology was excellent and it would have taken years to develop an equivalent quality of engineering internally. This was before the present day race to the bottom in the printer market.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#12

Post by PeterisP »

First, accurate and reliable mechanical manipulation of paper is tricky, to get all kinds of different paper stock to feed reliably without jams and position in the same place.

Second, decent reproduction of e.g. text at decent DPI requires more accuracy in head positioning than what you need for basic 3d printing.

So to me it seems that the big issue is not that a random cheap standard printer would be cheaper, but rather than the home-built version is likely to get worse results than what you can get in store for peanuts.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#13

Post by cocoapuffs7 »

fsflover wrote: post #3

See also: https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 ) Some of the documents that we previously received through FOIA suggested that all major manufacturers of color laser printers entered a secret agreement with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable.

Yes. But this is unrelated to the question they asked.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#14

Post by colinb »

tweetle_beetle wrote: post #11
detaro wrote: post #6

Printers are cheap and widely available, which leaves a DIY printer which is going to be slower, more error-prone and more expensive as a very niche idea. There is a clear benefit to buying or building an open hobby 3D printer, whereas that's harder to argue for a 2D one - while there is a lot of crap around, there's enough workable choices, aftermarket inks/toner works, you likely won't be modifying/tuning a 2D prin…

I also wouldn't underestimate the challenge of moving paper. I once spoke to someone who worked for Kodak (or a similar company - it was a long time ago) who said that they acquired another printer company purely because their paper moving technology was excellent and it would have taken years to develop an equivalent quality of engineering internally. This was before the present day race to the bottom in the printer…

If you haven't read it already, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/12/why-paper-jams... is a lot of fun.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#15

Post by izacus »

pangoraw wrote: post #4
jacquesm wrote: post #2

Because a good 2D printer costs peanuts.

Yes but then you have to buy cartridges from the manufacturer who has the control to say there are empty when in fact they are not. It is a completely closed ecosystem. I believe customers deserve better alternatives.

There's a very lively market of refilled / aftermarket cartriges which lowers the incentive to fix these issues.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#16

Post by detaro »

tweetle_beetle wrote: post #11
detaro wrote: post #6

Printers are cheap and widely available, which leaves a DIY printer which is going to be slower, more error-prone and more expensive as a very niche idea. There is a clear benefit to buying or building an open hobby 3D printer, whereas that's harder to argue for a 2D one - while there is a lot of crap around, there's enough workable choices, aftermarket inks/toner works, you likely won't be modifying/tuning a 2D prin…

I also wouldn't underestimate the challenge of moving paper. I once spoke to someone who worked for Kodak (or a similar company - it was a long time ago) who said that they acquired another printer company purely because their paper moving technology was excellent and it would have taken years to develop an equivalent quality of engineering internally. This was before the present day race to the bottom in the printer…

Yeah. printing on a single hand-fed sheet: probably "easy". Reliably going through a random pack of 500 pages, not so much.

Something pen-plotters don't do (they typically want paper to be placed down for them, or work of a roll of paper), and the maybe 3D-printer equivalent of preparing the print bed and removing prints from it is a well-known source of problems and manual work.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#17

Post by detaro »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #8
jacquesm wrote: post #2

Because a good 2D printer costs peanuts.

As a relatively new owner of a 3D printer, cost has very little to do with it. I spent way more on upgrading and tinkering with my printer than the thing cost in the first place. If there was a 2D equivalent, I'd be interested in tinkering with that, too. And yes, that would probably mean spending 5x ot 10x more than a cheap commercial printer to get a printer than underperformed said cheap commercial printer. But it…

Would you do that tinkering if you could just buy a 3D printer cheaply that didn't need upgrading and worked perfectly?

You can probably adapt a printhead from a printer to your 3D printer today if you want a crappy DIY 2D printer and go from there.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#18

Post by detaro »

pangoraw wrote: post #4
jacquesm wrote: post #2

Because a good 2D printer costs peanuts.

Yes but then you have to buy cartridges from the manufacturer who has the control to say there are empty when in fact they are not. It is a completely closed ecosystem. I believe customers deserve better alternatives.

For many brands you can easily buy off-brand cartridges, and nowadays quite a few sell printers that work of ink tanks and don't even have cartridges.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#19

Post by sparkling »

Here is a business idea: the printer that just works.

Requirements:

- laser printer that works with non-proprietary toners

- USB plug & play on all major operating systems

- Network printing via WiFi and ethernet

- No 2GB bloatware installation required, i dont want your shitty photo management software, just give me the driver

- Replaceable parts

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#20

Post by teknopaul »

cocoapuffs7 wrote: post #13
fsflover wrote: post #3

See also: https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 ) Some of the documents that we previously received through FOIA suggested that all major manufacturers of color laser printers entered a secret agreement with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable.

Yes. But this is unrelated to the question they asked.

[citation needed]
Post reply on HN