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Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

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11–20 of 66 posts

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#11
post #6

Let's address the elephant in the room: Working from home is a lot less efficient than an ideal office. It's harder to debug things or pair program when needed, it's harder to grab someone's attention, it's easier to miscommunicate, and communication is a lot slower. You also don't get the same camaraderie as you would face to face, but the upside is that you also don't get distracted by attractive coworkers. However…

I take direct issue with "good offices are wide open spaces," a statement that is strictly opinion in its most charitable interpretation, and actively goes against scientific research on productivity.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#12
post #5

I would not work for a company that would have me work from home for 10% less than what I make now. Why would I do that? I am paying more by working from home since I need to supply my own utilities and resources just to do my job.

You don't have to supply (i.e. buy) your own hardware, but you might have to pay for the power supply. On the contrary, you likely have lower commuting costs. However, the more important aspect might be that you end up needing more space at home and the employer needs less space in the office. Working from your kitchen table is probably not the best idea in terms of ergonomics. In my opinion this aspect gets few atte…

Many people (prior to Covid) did not have a desk and chair suitable for WFH (I did, but many of my coworkers didn't). Chairs and desks are hardware.

Many couples do not have two spare bedrooms (especially in the Bay Area) to work in. That means potentially renting/buying a larger living space, or converting living space into working space.

N=1, but my lower commuting costs are more than offset by the lack of company-provided lunches, snacks, and coffee.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#13
I'm still working in the office, so yes. Even though remote work has been a possibility for IT for a long time, various factors have prevented it from being taken up as the norm. I don't believe those factors have changed in any permanent way.

I would happily take a pay cut to work from home, and I'd even happily take a 50% pay cut to cut my hours by 50%, and I'd like a pony...

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#14
post #10

The location from which I am working is irrelevant with respect to the value I'm providing to the company. If anything I should earn more working from home, because I'm paying more for utilities and my employer isn't paying utilities for me at the office.

But you're also no longer paying for your commute.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#15
1. Yes, we will largely return to offices. Digital tools remain sub-par as replacements for direct human contact / communication, and that isn't likely to change soon. (Mayyyyyybe mixed reality will finally make a dent here, but meaningful computer-supported collaboration is still a very active area of academic research. Haven't found any tool that comes close to the fluency and reliability of a quick huddle around a whiteboard.) As others have noted, there's also a lot of investment in commercial space - so there will be economic / political pressure to return to office work.

Will this happen in 2021? No idea. Some workplaces have announced full-remote until mid-2021 at the very least, and any cure / vaccine will take time to fully study, productionize, and distribute. It might take a few years to fully return, and there may be a slightly higher proportion of WFH even after that.

For a historical perspective: consider that humanity has weathered catastrophic pandemics before, and look to what happened there in the longer term. This time around, we have the further advantage of much better medicine / logistics than, say, during the 1918 flu. (We also, of course, have both the advantages and disadvantages that come with much faster communications channels.)

2. Absolutely not! By working from home, I'm taking on additional office-related expenses that would normally be paid for, plus expenses related specifically to remote work (e.g. webcams). If anything, I'd expect the company to help cover those expenses, and/or bump my salary up to compensate for added setup and logistics on my end (or even just to reflect the reduced overhead on their end - if they save money having me work at home, why shouldn't I see some of that?)

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#16
post #6

Let's address the elephant in the room: Working from home is a lot less efficient than an ideal office. It's harder to debug things or pair program when needed, it's harder to grab someone's attention, it's easier to miscommunicate, and communication is a lot slower. You also don't get the same camaraderie as you would face to face, but the upside is that you also don't get distracted by attractive coworkers. However…

> Traffic and commuting is one of the worst little things of daily life. It's dangerous. It ruins the environment. Parking sucks.

I agree, but commuting has significant mental-health benefits. It provides a clear mental separation between "work" and "home".

I and several of my coworkers have noticed that we never feel "off work" anymore. Work just bleeds into everything because there isn't that 30 minute period (enforced by the need to arrive home in time to make and eat dinner) to clear your head at the end of the day and mentally switch contexts.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#18
post #10

The location from which I am working is irrelevant with respect to the value I'm providing to the company. If anything I should earn more working from home, because I'm paying more for utilities and my employer isn't paying utilities for me at the office.

But you're also no longer paying for your commute.

The salient point for ops argument is that the company isn’t providing utilities, isn’t providing parking, cleaning etc etc.

Working from home saves the company money. A company that is good to employees would recognise this and return at least some of the savings via payroll or reimbursements.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#19
post #6

Let's address the elephant in the room: Working from home is a lot less efficient than an ideal office. It's harder to debug things or pair program when needed, it's harder to grab someone's attention, it's easier to miscommunicate, and communication is a lot slower. You also don't get the same camaraderie as you would face to face, but the upside is that you also don't get distracted by attractive coworkers. However…

> Working from home is a lot less efficient than an ideal office. It's harder to debug things or pair program when needed, it's harder to grab someone's attention, it's easier to miscommunicate, and communication is a lot slower. You also don't get the same camaraderie as you would face to face, but the upside is that you also don't get distracted by attractive coworkers.

YMMV. Your home can be your ideal office, and is for many of us working remote (myself included). There are technology companies with hundreds of employees with billion dollar+ valuations who are fully remote. There is no proof they would be more efficient if you colocated all of those folks in person.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think 'normal' working will ever return?

#20
post #10

The location from which I am working is irrelevant with respect to the value I'm providing to the company. If anything I should earn more working from home, because I'm paying more for utilities and my employer isn't paying utilities for me at the office.

But you're also no longer paying for your commute.

It's not that you're not paying for your commute. It's that the company is no longer not paying you for those 1 or 2 hours you spend every day to go to your workplace and back.
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