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Ask HN: How to find high quality workplaces for developers?

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Re: Ask HN: How to find high quality workplaces for developers?

#11
> For me, "great" means...

You've done the first step - defining what you want. But your definition is still quite objective. What attributes of a team can be observed when they "value quality". What is a "reasonable" effort, and how can you see whether or not they do it.

Figure out some visible outcomes from those traits, and look for them during the interview process. Ask about those topics in the interview. There is so much talk on HN about what is wrong with interviews, but when they ask you if you have questions that is the part that is right - it is your opportunity to dig into these traits that make a team great, and determine whether or not any given team matches your desires.

I recommend people break it down even farther - before you step into an interview, break those desires down in wants vs. needs. If you have a need they do not meet then the team is not for you. If you have wants they do not meet, you need to walk in accepting that it isn't perfect and either be compensated for those imperfections, or have enough authority and/or autonomy to try to invoke changes in the organization to improve it.

Re: Ask HN: How to find high quality workplaces for developers?

#12
> For me, "great" means a team that consistently values quality, puts reasonable effort into application design and maintenance, and makes thoughtful decisions related to project goals and end-users.

My 2 cents...

I don't think it's about teams. IMO it's about company KPIs. Most industries value speed over everything else for a reason: survival. Nearly all companies use KPIs, take a look at the KPIs and you'll be able to spot which companies value quality over speed and vice-versa.

The values you're looking for can be found in specific industries that cannot afford low quality. I'm thinking Aerospace, Health, Military etc. Keep in mind that on the flip-side these industries are very slow on "shiny new tech" adoption, for obvious reasons. You might not enjoy working with cobol :^)

Another good fit could be software companies, especially in the security space like 1Password for example (no affiliation). By "software companies" I mean companies who's product is software and not companies that are using software as means to an end. The first group has much stronger incentives in delivering reliable software.

Quality software can be found in many open source projects. The fact that the code is public increases the level scrutiny. HAProxy, SQLite, the Linux kernel and PostgreSQL come to mind as well known high quality open source projects.

Re: Ask HN: How to find high quality workplaces for developers?

#14
post #3
post #2

Teams like that are built and grown, not found according to some criteria. You’re asking about personalities and team dynamics, and company culture, which vary according to circumstances and over time. Companies tend to optimize for profit, not for the comfort of programmers.

Do you believe then that it's impossible to identify a good situation until you take the job? There are no reliable job search tactics to select for better settings? I would say, for example, that a job interview helps provide a vibe for the current situation at a company. But it's not a perfect signal, and as an individual I can't go on that many interviews. Hence looking for other approaches people have tried. > Co…

It's impossible to identify an ideal situation when you take the job because some aspect of the company or team will be 'different' when you start than when you interviewed, either because it was misrepresented, or there is an organizational or staffing change.

The best you can do is find a successful team as that will provide more time to improve the team or adapt.

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