Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 41 posts

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#11

Post by dakiol »

ck_one wrote: post #3
dakiol wrote: post #2

A good rule of thumb (although it's difficult to summarize the salaries of all the countries in Europe) is: Juniors up to 30K. Mediors up to 50K. Seniors up to 80K. This is for software engineers.

At least in Germany they are higher. A friend who is still in college got an offer as a new grad for ~75k. This offer is probably in the top 10% though. I don't know a single friend from college who starts with less than 45k as a new grad. Those who get 45k usually don't have internship experience.

That offer (75K) is definitely not the norm for a new grad. It can happen, sure, but I think it's more productive to discuss salaries 90% of the software engineers in this forum can get/expect.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#12

Post by dakiol »

bruce511 wrote: post #10
runawaybottle wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always been under the impression your taxes are also very high, so what does your actual take home salary look like?

Context matters. You take home more than just money. In most of Europe you take home free, or nearly free, health care, education and so on. In the USA you take home a strong military. And that's before we consider local cost of living. Comparing take-home £ in isolation is almost meaningless - it doesn't equate to disposable income after expenses - or what that disposable income can buy. IOW making 200k in SF is les…

This is not exactly correct but almost. I Europe expect around 40% percent of your gross salary to be gone in taxes. Health insurance is not 100% free (e.g., you go to the doctor and he prescribes you some pills. You have to pay for those pills yourself. Sure the doctor doesn't charge you for the hour). Education is not 100% free. For example, in Germany it would cost you around 400 Euro per semester to get enrolled in a public University).

So, for everybody to know: a salary of, let's say, 70K in Germany for a single person (tax group 1) living in the west would translate to around 3300 euros per month after taxes.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#14

Post by fittyfox »

Living in Berlin, various StartUp experiences.

2013: 34k (junior Frontend)

2014: 40k (Fullstack JS)

2015: 50k (Frontend)

2016: 60k (Frontend)

Went freelancing after this...

2020: 85k offer for Senior Software Engineer

All numbers are from StartUps. You have to know however that you probably won't find a unicorn in Europe just yet. It's not the same mentality as in the US.

I currently work for a US company with a European location, and it differs quite a lot.

30+ days holidays + country wide holidays 38h work week Free day care where I live

I checked and I would have to earn around 140k in New York or 280k in San Francisco to have the "same" quality of life as 85k in Berlin buys me. However, in Berlin I have additional benefits like the ones mentioned above. I pay around 1100 Euros for a 110qm apartment "downtown" and have no car.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#15

Post by tsamtsam »

fittyfox wrote: post #14

Living in Berlin, various StartUp experiences. 2013: 34k (junior Frontend) 2014: 40k (Fullstack JS) 2015: 50k (Frontend) 2016: 60k (Frontend) Went freelancing after this... 2020: 85k offer for Senior Software Engineer All numbers are from StartUps. You have to know however that you probably won't find a unicorn in Europe just yet. It's not the same mentality as in the US. I currently work for a US company with a Euro…

Thank you for this! Are the salaries from 2013-2016 from the same startup or mutiple ones?

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#16

Post by yulaow »

cgb223 wrote: post #7
yulaow wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Italy a senior dev would often get less than half of that (pretax). Basically just in Milan salary are higher but a junior would not get more than 30k

What does that look like post tax? Is it livable?

30k is around 1700euros/month after tax. Sounds like a little but it is already 200euros/month over the average salary in Italy and this is for a junior position (even if I have to admit I saw often 26000-28000 euro as a common pre-tax salary for juniors outside Milan)

For comparison for a two rooms apartment in a city (again, except for Milan) you usually pay around 400-700e so it is livable and you can save enough money month over month. If you are a couple with both around the same pay you can live quite well and with a senior role (typically you get 38k = 2100 euros/month but I see some good companies offer 45k = 2450euros/month) you really have no problems at all and can save a lot + buy a 3 or 4 rooms apartment easily.

Then Milan is an exception. There as a senior you can get quite easily 65k = 3400 euro/month to 85k but the cost of life is London-level and rents are absurdly high in any part of the city, so much that mostly you want to live outside of it and just commute via trains.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#17

Post by sldan »

fittyfox wrote: post #14

Living in Berlin, various StartUp experiences. 2013: 34k (junior Frontend) 2014: 40k (Fullstack JS) 2015: 50k (Frontend) 2016: 60k (Frontend) Went freelancing after this... 2020: 85k offer for Senior Software Engineer All numbers are from StartUps. You have to know however that you probably won't find a unicorn in Europe just yet. It's not the same mentality as in the US. I currently work for a US company with a Euro…

>I pay around 1100 Euros for a 110qm apartment "downtown" and have no car.

That is incredibly cheap, which neighbourhood is it if I may ask? I live in Munich (well outside of Munich a bit but work in Munich) and trying to relocate with rents being very expensive. I can get a 1 room apartment (30ish square meters maybe) in a decent block for that money you pay in Berlin.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#18

Post by fittyfox »

tsamtsam wrote: post #15
fittyfox wrote: post #14

Living in Berlin, various StartUp experiences. 2013: 34k (junior Frontend) 2014: 40k (Fullstack JS) 2015: 50k (Frontend) 2016: 60k (Frontend) Went freelancing after this... 2020: 85k offer for Senior Software Engineer All numbers are from StartUps. You have to know however that you probably won't find a unicorn in Europe just yet. It's not the same mentality as in the US. I currently work for a US company with a Euro…

Thank you for this! Are the salaries from 2013-2016 from the same startup or mutiple ones?

Multiple StartUps. I switched jobs every 6-12 months and got a nice salary bump along the way.

I don't know how the situation is at the moment with COVID though.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#19

Post by fittyfox »

sldan wrote: post #17
fittyfox wrote: post #14

Living in Berlin, various StartUp experiences. 2013: 34k (junior Frontend) 2014: 40k (Fullstack JS) 2015: 50k (Frontend) 2016: 60k (Frontend) Went freelancing after this... 2020: 85k offer for Senior Software Engineer All numbers are from StartUps. You have to know however that you probably won't find a unicorn in Europe just yet. It's not the same mentality as in the US. I currently work for a US company with a Euro…

>I pay around 1100 Euros for a 110qm apartment "downtown" and have no car. That is incredibly cheap, which neighbourhood is it if I may ask? I live in Munich (well outside of Munich a bit but work in Munich) and trying to relocate with rents being very expensive. I can get a 1 room apartment (30ish square meters maybe) in a decent block for that money you pay in Berlin.

I lucked out a bit. It's somewhere in the West, I got the apartment for 1600 Euro/month but then went to the lawyer and looked and the rent prices around me. My landlord then had to reduce rent.

It's kinda hard right now to find apartment with good quality/price ratio. But yeah, Berlin is still much cheaper then Munich if you look for family-sized apartments.

Re: Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe

#20

Post by tsamtsam »

fittyfox wrote: post #18
tsamtsam wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this! Are the salaries from 2013-2016 from the same startup or mutiple ones?

Multiple StartUps. I switched jobs every 6-12 months and got a nice salary bump along the way. I don't know how the situation is at the moment with COVID though.

Any particular reason for switching every 6-12 months and is that common practice? Trying to get a sensing here.
Post reply on HN