Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#11

Post by Spinosaurus » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #8

woah wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them believe that Tesla stock will somehow get them a piece of spacex. Many more are just following the price.

I have seen that floating around. Is there any reason why this is being so? They are just two different companies belong mostly to the same person. Why would owning Tesla gets your SpaceX?

It doesn't, at all. I've heard suggestions that great news coming out of SpaceX does impact Tesla, but not the other way around. Plus, SpaceX isn't a public company.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#12

Post by drcongo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

Spinosaurus wrote: post #6

qwerty456127 wrote: post #5

Perhaps because Tesla is less bloated? Buying shares in an old big corporation feels like hiring the Vogon bureaucrats while investing in Tesla and SpaceX seems like paying young smart people for getting up-to-date things done.

> Perhaps because Tesla is less bloated? Is that simply a perception you think many might investors have? Tesla has lost money every year, while Toyota has showed substantial profit. Without knowing anything else about these companies, an outside observer might think Tesla was the "bloated" of the two.

Toyota are also pioneers of JIT manufacturing.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#13

Post by haltingproblem » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

Company "worth" is calculated as: last sale price * number of shares outstanding

stock is held by founders and fans ==> few sellers

more buyers than sellers ==> stock price goes up ==> inflates worth

Company worth is an imperfect metric at best and non-sensical at worst.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#14

Post by qwerty456127 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

Spinosaurus wrote: post #6

qwerty456127 wrote: post #5

Perhaps because Tesla is less bloated? Buying shares in an old big corporation feels like hiring the Vogon bureaucrats while investing in Tesla and SpaceX seems like paying young smart people for getting up-to-date things done.

> Perhaps because Tesla is less bloated? Is that simply a perception you think many might investors have? Tesla has lost money every year, while Toyota has showed substantial profit. Without knowing anything else about these companies, an outside observer might think Tesla was the "bloated" of the two.

I don't know the proportion of investors who think this way yet I simply can't believe there is going to be much place for non-electric cars in cities in future. So, given how strongly do electric cars associate with the Tesla brand, I find it improbable that Tesla is going to fail or stagnate. Cities probably are going to start phasing gas/diesel cars out as soon as they recover from the CoV-caused economic crisis or shortly after. I know Toyota also builds electric and hybrid cars but many consumers don't know.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#15

Post by playingchanges » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

I wonder what the perception of Tesla will be in a few years when people start wanting to upgrade / sell these cars. I can’t imagine the resale being comparable to a Toyota. There is certainly a reason Toyota is the worlds most popular auto manufacturer, and it is very different from the reasoning people use to justify Tesla bullishness.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#16

Post by ykevinator » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

It owns a boatload of battery and solar ip

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#17

Post by throw51319 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

playingchanges wrote: post #15

I wonder what the perception of Tesla will be in a few years when people start wanting to upgrade / sell these cars. I can’t imagine the resale being comparable to a Toyota. There is certainly a reason Toyota is the worlds most popular auto manufacturer, and it is very different from the reasoning people use to justify Tesla bullishness.

Yeah true... there will be a glut of used cars. Therefore more people can afford to get a used one, which will lower the brand premium they've been enjoying.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#18

Post by nine_zeros » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

Is there even a meaning to the stock market anymore? Share prices are running on a greater fool theory, aided by long term capital gains and the "reinvest in growth" charade, which will inevitably peak out. Everyone's just waiting to time the peak.

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#19

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

It's not.

Enterprise value of Toyota: $318B

Enterprise value of Tesla: $205B

Re: Ask HN: How in the world is $TSLA worth more than $TM?

#20

Post by aeternum » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #3

Because stock prices reflect future earnings, not past earnings. Basically, people buying TSLA stock believe future sales will be larger than Toyota.

Not just larger than Toyota. Larger than Toyota, Panasonic (batteries), FirstSolar (and other solar energy companies), Waymo (since they are arguably further ahead on self-driving), etc.