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Ask HN: What IT certifications should I get for my degree?

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Re: Ask HN: What IT certifications should I get for my degree?

#11

To be honest, from my experience IT certifications don't bring much bang for the buck, but this probably depends on what kind of certification it is. If you haven't had luck with applying for jobs, I'd suggest to think a bit outside the box. From my experience it helps if potential employers see you're passionate about something, whatever it is, even more so if it is in a relevant area. A GitHub profile on that topic…

>A GitHub profile on that topic, (semi-) deep knowledge or something comparable helps quite a lot.

At all places I worked, the practical knowledge of the person to be hired was always most important. I don't think it that important if the projects were freelance or just hobby projects. Just having a toy project on Github, that is also hosted somewhere and close to what you would do at the future job can already truly impress people. Combining that with confident self-marketing will make many small startups get very interested.

Once you got some practical professional experience you can still switch to a company that is larger or has more benefits.

Re: Ask HN: What IT certifications should I get for my degree?

#14
post #10

I have to agree with the user chupa-cups, that paying for certificates yourself is not worth it. I cannot offer you a job, but I can at least take a look on how you apply, and help you imrpove that process of application. I have several year of experience in recruiting on my back, and that in multiple countries. Improving your resume and application progress might actually be the missing part and if not, you can stil…

OP, here's one small method in my tried-and-true box of methods for a job search (hope it helps):

Don't apply to a job posting or through a portal. Instead, hop on LinkedIn and search for recruiters that work at the office you are applying to. Start your search with all employees from the relevant company, then filter for location and for title. For title, you will usually find a recruiter or general hiring manager by using terms like 'Talent', 'Talent Acquistion', 'Recruiter', etc.

Put the names of the recruiters you have found for the jobs you want to apply to in an excel spreadsheet. Then, go to a site like hunter.io or rocketreach and find the email address format for all the companies you want to apply to. Usually, the first or second format you find will be the right one (if an email gets rejected then just try a different format).

Attach your resume. Put "RE: [the specific job] Role" in the subject line. Then, write a very short email to the recruiter or talent coordinator or whoever telling them that you are X and are interested in the X Role at their company (i.e. software engineer interested in the Software Engineer role at said company). Ask them if they would have time over the next week to connect over the phone for 15 minutes. Then say you would like to share your story and learn more about the company and the role.

Lastly, tell them that you look forward to connecting (this explicitly puts the ball in their court).

I've had great success getting interviews with this method (half the time the recruiter will skip the phone chat and just fast track me to an interview). I know others who've used it to similar success.

Re: Ask HN: What IT certifications should I get for my degree?

#17
post #16

The simple answer is A+, Network+ then Security+. The more advanced ones are nice, but become more difficult. I am sorry to hear your degree is not providing what you expected. The problem is the CIS degree is very heavily subscribed.

Unless you're going to work for the government, no one gives a shit about the A+ an Network+ anymore.

The A+ qualifies you to make slightly above minimum wage as a member of the Geek Squad.

Network+ is a decent certificate as far as what you learn, but its easy enough to get that no one is impressed by it and it has so much overlap with the Security+ that you might as well get that one instead. It still isn't highly sought after outside the government, but it might open some doors. I got my first security interview about 6 years because of it. However, I passed the interview due mostly to several years of being a security/it hobbyist.

Re: Ask HN: What IT certifications should I get for my degree?

#18
I'm a principal security analyst for a private company. I'd be willing to talk with you and help you figure out what you need to work on and give some advice on breaking into the field if you would like.

As to your question about certifications, it really depends on what you want to do. There are a dozen or so subfields of network security. There are a lot of good certifications, but there are even more that are worthless or almost worthless.

That being said, there are some certifications that employers want that are not good or not targeted towards technical people, but for some reason employers still value them.

In general, books and youtube videos are better ways to learn technical skills. However, if you have at least 1 certification that people want, that could get you interviews where you can then demonstrate the things you have learned by reading, watching, and doing. This is how I broke into Security.

Most of the certifications I recommend are going to involve buying study guides rather than paying thousands of dollars for a course. Its the smartest way to do it. If you're going to spend money on an expensive course go to a SANS course because they are the gold standard and they actually teach technical skills.

If you want to focus on networking as a career:

Start working on the CCNA, the CCNA used to be the minimum requirement for getting a job in networking and it probably still is. Most places use Cisco gear and these courses do a good job of teaching you how to use Cisco gear.

After that, either continue working towards the CCNP or get your Security+ first.

With those certs you should be able to get a job, then with experience you can figure out what else, if anything, you should work on.

If you want to focus on security:

Note that my advice focuses on just a couple of areas of security with which I am familiar, there's lots of different jobs.

If you want to get into defensive security, such as working in a SOC or an Incident Response Team. You can try to start by getting a security+ and seeing if you can get interviews with that. Every company is different, but at my company we would probably be more likely to interview you based on your having a related degree than a Sec+.

After this, your options become pretty limited if you want certificate. You can get the CEH with a study guide. The CEH is a pretty trash certificate with a pretty trash training program, but lots of employers still value it. I would recommend buying one or two study guides for it rather than paying thousands of dollars for a class. Furthermore, if you start playing around with the tools it suggests in your free time, then you will probably learn a lot. Learning the tools and techniques that pentesters use to attack networks is going to be invaluable if you end up becoming a security analyst that investigates attacker activity.

This is where things branch off and you really run out of inexpensive options.

For pentesting, the OSCP is an amazing certification and its also an amazing value compared to most paid training. Its online and self-paced, but the cost of the course depends on how much lab time you purchase. It used to be around 1100 for 90 days of access to their lab. Its an entry-level pentesting certification, but it is considered to be pretty difficult and there's no way to fake it. It is very well respected by employers and decently well respected by industry professionals. If you pass it, you should be ready for an entry-level pentesting gig. Note that this is also worth considering if you are going to do defensive security.

The next option is SANS training. About 5-6k per course. Not ideal and I wouldn't recommend paying out of pocket. Most people go after they have a job and their employer usually pays. I have taken 6 courses from them and I learned something valuable at all but one.

If you want to do defensive security, start with the GCIA course. Its a network traffic analysis course that focuses on security.

If you really would rather learn host-based forensics instead, you could start with the GCFA course. However, I will say that more SOCs focus heavily on network traffic analysis than they do on host-based forensics. So, it might be easier to get a job with the GCIA.

If you would prefer pentesting, the GWAPT is a pretty good course on web application penetration testing. SANS also has the GPEN, but basically its an easier, less in-depth version of the OSCP, but it costs 5x as much. Its still very well regarded in the industry and it might be a better option for you if you don't think you could pass the OSCP.

Finally, this certification is incredibly worthless for a guy in a technical role, but for some reason companies, and especially the US government, think its the holy grail of certifications. The CISSP. Its almost entirely non-technical and its extremely tedious to make it through the study guides, but if you can pass the grueling 6 hour tests, its a really good thing to have on your resume and you could probably get a job with it even if you have no idea what you are doing.

Those are the only certs I would consider until you have a job in the industry you want to be working in. Then let your job, your employer's needs, and your personal interests dictate what you study. Almost anything I didn't mention is either more advanced than what you need to get a job or completely worthless.

Aside from paid education, the internet provides a world class education in network security for free.

opensecuritytraining.info has some great classes.

Iron Geek posts talks from pretty much every convention

/r/netsec has some great resources and links to related subreddits.

Just gotta keep googling. Get good at it because its like 20% of the job.

And I mean it, reach out if you want to have an in-depth conversation.

As a final note, there are people that look down upon anyone with a certification on their resume. Its a stupid perspective. They are correct that taking a certification exam doesn't magically bestow a high level of technical ability on a person, but the fact that they are working on security or networking stuff means that unless they aren't trying at all, they are probably learning something useful. I personally used the certifications I have to fill gaps in my knowledge. I was already a pretty good analyst that was self-taught using books and free stuff from the internet. However, sometimes its hard to identify areas that you have completely neglected when you structure your own training. At the very least, most certifications are designed to be well rounded on the subject they teach, so they can bring a lot of that stuff to light.

I would never assume that a person is amazing because they have a certification, but I would never assume that it means they are bad either. That's what interviews are for.

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