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Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#11

Post by vgoh1 »

tlb wrote: post #3

Simply remove your skeleton from its packaging and place it in a 3D scanner. Seriously, where it gets tricky is that there is a lot of stuff (cartilage) in the gray area between bone and flesh. It shows up dimly in CT scans or other X-ray based imaging. If you omit all of it, the skeleton will seem disjointed. If you include all of it, it'll seem fused together. BTW, you can buy actual human skeletons for around $5k.…

Sounds like you would want to edit in Blender, or some type of 3d modeling software, and, with an anatomy textbook in hand, edit out the parts that are obviously not bone.

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#14

Post by toomuchtodo »

i_am_good wrote: post #12
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Consider building off of the work of this artist who did the same. https://www.cnet.com/news/artist-3d-prints-his-own-skeleton/ https://casparberger.nl/skeleton/

That's amazing! I will look into their methodologies more. Thanks!

You are very welcome! If it's not too much trouble, consider blogging/documenting your work as it progresses. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#15

Post by toomuchtodo »

crooked-v wrote: post #10
i_am_good wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight! Although there are readily available skeletons for purchase, I want to print my own skeleton for "profiling and debugging" purposes :)

You could buy a skeleton, scan and print a copy, and then sell the skeleton to someone else. Of course, if you do that you could get an accurate anatomical model (like those ones that show up in high school bio classrooms) for $200-$400 instead.

I wonder if there's a market in medical education for precise models of different body parts with one-click ordering from model->3D production->shipping to your education facility. This is distinct from the efforts of facilities who are using 3D manufacturing to create patient models on site for surgery planning.

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#16

Post by crooked-v »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #15
crooked-v wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could buy a skeleton, scan and print a copy, and then sell the skeleton to someone else. Of course, if you do that you could get an accurate anatomical model (like those ones that show up in high school bio classrooms) for $200-$400 instead.

I wonder if there's a market in medical education for precise models of different body parts with one-click ordering from model->3D production->shipping to your education facility. This is distinct from the efforts of facilities who are using 3D manufacturing to create patient models on site for surgery planning.

This seems like it's just adding the extra step of 3D printing to anatomical models that are already made en masse.

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#17

Post by PlaceboGazebo »

I've 3D printed my brain - I'm a biomedical engineer, and for a while was working for a research institute in France. While there, I had many friends and acquaintances who were doctors or surgeons performing their own research work. I had made noises in the past that I really wanted to print my brain sometime, so one of them referred me to an observational study in the area using fMRI to observe the brain performing visuo-spatial tasks. I went through the study, got paid €50 (score!) and asked for the morphological data in DICOM format, which they happily handed over. The DICOM is essentially a whole bunch of separate images, one for each slice the MRI takes, along with the metadata that helps piece it together. The reconstruction of a 3D model from slice data is usually called segmentation. I'm not overly familiar with the process, but I'm sure someone here can chime in with various segmentation methods. In my case I asked a technical medicine intern to do it for me. Interns can be useful, after all. AFAIK the output is usually a mesh, like an .obj or .stl file, which is thankfully pretty compatible with 3D printing.

To answer your specific points - I would go for MRI over CT - CTs tend to have high radiation doses, especially if you plan to do a full-body scan. I can't recommend it. MRIs are much less harmful. There are private clinics where you can pay for a full body "preventive" MRI - this will set you back a nice sum, >€1000 in the Netherlands, IIRC. Segmenting the resulting DICOM file is difficult. It will require a fair bit of work. Look into ITK / VTK / 3Dslicer. You will absolutely have to clean up and probably remesh any resulting stl/obj, I recommend using meshlab for that. From there, 3D printing can be done with any personal printer that has a large enough volume to not take forever. Using an external service, e.g. shapeways will be very expensive. If you don't have your own printer, you should probably look into an inexpensive FDM printer, I personally use an original prusa i3 Mk2.5.

All in all, it will be a very expensive journey if you're not already in the field and have connections. Maybe try to connect with local universities to find observational studies.

edit because I realised I sound very negative. I actually think you have a really cool idea. Please do go ahead if you have the time and money, and for the love of all that is holy, blog it for posterity!

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#18

Post by MR4D »

I mean this as a joke, but only sortof....

For my response to #3, an interesting thought would be to have a metal 3D printer (or at least access to one).

Not long ago, Bugatti made a 3D printed brake caliper out of titanium that was stronger and lighter than their own highly engineered caliper. [0]

Upgrading your skeleton to titanium might not be adamantium, but it sure would be cool if you ever needed the spare parts!

Finally, lest you think I was totally out there, SLM Solutions (who printed the caliper for Bugatti), actually has a medical division! [1]

[0] - https://www.tctmagazine.com/3d-printing-news/bugatti-slm-sol...

[1] - https://www.slm-solutions.com/industries/medical-and-dental/

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#19

Post by schoen »

gaze wrote: post #5

MRI may work... I think there's a skeletal MRI. That will be extremely expensive. CT scan probably would work, but I don't think they'll let you dose yourself with that many X-Rays for fun. Most of these scanners give you voxel data, which you can then threshold some way and generate a water-tight surface which can be turned into an STL and 3D printed The best 3D printer probably uses a stereolithography process. The…

> I don't think they'll let you dose yourself with that many X-Rays for fun.

There are companies that will let you get a "baseline" CT scan so that you can compare it with a future scan to see if something has changed. I don't think many doctors recommend this for the general public (because of the high radiation dose), but it does seem to be an available service and not prohibited by the FDA or something.

A CT scan comes with a strikingly high radiation dose, much greater than most people are likely to receive in any other circumstance. https://xkcd.com/radiation/

Re: Ask HN: How can I 3D print my skeleton for research?

#20

Post by roywiggins »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #15
crooked-v wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could buy a skeleton, scan and print a copy, and then sell the skeleton to someone else. Of course, if you do that you could get an accurate anatomical model (like those ones that show up in high school bio classrooms) for $200-$400 instead.

I wonder if there's a market in medical education for precise models of different body parts with one-click ordering from model->3D production->shipping to your education facility. This is distinct from the efforts of facilities who are using 3D manufacturing to create patient models on site for surgery planning.

Why 3D print if it's just going to be for education, not individualized patient models?
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