Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#11

Post by beagle3 » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

krm01 wrote: post #4

It’s been said numerous time here on HN and elsewhere (read patio11’s kalzumeus.com) but just to repeat what others and myself have found to work best: dont charge per hour. Charge per day/week or month. Your goal is to work efficiently and fast. When you do this, it means you get to make more money for less time and the client gets the benefit of getting work done faster.

This makes no sense mathematically - changing the unit of measurement (and perhaps rounding) cannot make a real difference unless substantially all of your results are between 0.5 and 1.5 unit.

If you said “charge by project/milestone”, your reasoning makes sense.

The people who charge a lot by hour (lawyers, tax specialists etc) will often charge in 15 minute increments. Even if you charge by day, tou’ll find you have to charge in 0.25 day increments or so.

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#12

Post by joshuamorton » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #11

krm01 wrote: post #4

It’s been said numerous time here on HN and elsewhere (read patio11’s kalzumeus.com) but just to repeat what others and myself have found to work best: dont charge per hour. Charge per day/week or month. Your goal is to work efficiently and fast. When you do this, it means you get to make more money for less time and the client gets the benefit of getting work done faster.

This makes no sense mathematically - changing the unit of measurement (and perhaps rounding) cannot make a real difference unless substantially all of your results are between 0.5 and 1.5 unit. If you said “charge by project/milestone”, your reasoning makes sense. The people who charge a lot by hour (lawyers, tax specialists etc) will often charge in 15 minute increments. Even if you charge by day, tou’ll find you ha…

Another way of putting this might be "charge by the sprint".

You don't track your time specifically, you do report back on your progress each week/two, and the company makes renewal decisions off of that. The point is to not subdivide the week.

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#13

Post by quickthrower2 » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

Contractor or freelancer? To me a contractor does short gigs 3-12 months with a daily rate and are usually being hired by a technically knowledgeable person, who says I need x,y,z tech skills.

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#14

Post by vannevar » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #11

krm01 wrote: post #4

It’s been said numerous time here on HN and elsewhere (read patio11’s kalzumeus.com) but just to repeat what others and myself have found to work best: dont charge per hour. Charge per day/week or month. Your goal is to work efficiently and fast. When you do this, it means you get to make more money for less time and the client gets the benefit of getting work done faster.

This makes no sense mathematically - changing the unit of measurement (and perhaps rounding) cannot make a real difference unless substantially all of your results are between 0.5 and 1.5 unit. If you said “charge by project/milestone”, your reasoning makes sense. The people who charge a lot by hour (lawyers, tax specialists etc) will often charge in 15 minute increments. Even if you charge by day, tou’ll find you ha…

You're assuming that in order to bill one day, you have to work 8 hours, which is more or less how hourly billing works, particularly in the cases you cite where the actual billing unit is 15 minutes. But a day rate works differently; it basically says that for the duration of the contract, you will get paid each day you're on contract, regardless of the actual number of hours worked. You might work more than 8 hours a day, you might work less. Either way, you get paid for the day.

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#15

Post by vannevar » Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

You're probably going to get significant selection bias here. Few people are going to admit to a rate they're afraid is low, and other people who respond may be doing a bit of humble bragging. In my experience both contracting and hiring, $100-150/hr is typical for an experienced person.

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#16

Post by DamnYuppie » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 12:02 AM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #15

You're probably going to get significant selection bias here. Few people are going to admit to a rate they're afraid is low, and other people who respond may be doing a bit of humble bragging. In my experience both contracting and hiring, $100-150/hr is typical for an experienced person.

This seems WAY low to me. I ran many projects for companies. $150 is the rate they pay for 3-4 years experience from consulting firms. You should start at ~ $240 and let them negotiate you down.

Never be afraid of letting them pay you more!

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#17

Post by seanwilson » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 12:06 AM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #14

beagle3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense mathematically - changing the unit of measurement (and perhaps rounding) cannot make a real difference unless substantially all of your results are between 0.5 and 1.5 unit. If you said “charge by project/milestone”, your reasoning makes sense. The people who charge a lot by hour (lawyers, tax specialists etc) will often charge in 15 minute increments. Even if you charge by day, tou’ll find you ha…

You're assuming that in order to bill one day, you have to work 8 hours, which is more or less how hourly billing works, particularly in the cases you cite where the actual billing unit is 15 minutes. But a day rate works differently; it basically says that for the duration of the contract, you will get paid each day you're on contract, regardless of the actual number of hours worked. You might work more than 8 hours…

> But a day rate works differently; it basically says that for the duration of the contract, you will get paid each day you're on contract, regardless of the actual number of hours worked. You might work more than 8 hours a day, you might work less. Either way, you get paid for the day.

Can you explain the advantages daily billing has overly hourly billing when the client has a constant stream of work to keep you busy?

Sounds like the main benefit is if a client interrupts your day with only a single hour of work to do, you can bill them more? Apart from that, doesn't it still have the downsides of having to keep timesheets, having to justify your hours and working faster means you earn less?

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#18

Post by beagle3 » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #14

beagle3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense mathematically - changing the unit of measurement (and perhaps rounding) cannot make a real difference unless substantially all of your results are between 0.5 and 1.5 unit. If you said “charge by project/milestone”, your reasoning makes sense. The people who charge a lot by hour (lawyers, tax specialists etc) will often charge in 15 minute increments. Even if you charge by day, tou’ll find you ha…

You're assuming that in order to bill one day, you have to work 8 hours, which is more or less how hourly billing works, particularly in the cases you cite where the actual billing unit is 15 minutes. But a day rate works differently; it basically says that for the duration of the contract, you will get paid each day you're on contract, regardless of the actual number of hours worked. You might work more than 8 hours…

How does that make a difference if you don't exhaust the work-available-to-do?

You could work just 1 hour a day; but you can similarly just work 10 minutes out of every hour you bill. If you're saying "well, yes, but it's not considered ethical on hourly rates and considered ethical on daily rates" - then our experience differs.

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#19

Post by drugme » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #16

vannevar wrote: post #15

You're probably going to get significant selection bias here. Few people are going to admit to a rate they're afraid is low, and other people who respond may be doing a bit of humble bragging. In my experience both contracting and hiring, $100-150/hr is typical for an experienced person.

This seems WAY low to me. I ran many projects for companies. $150 is the rate they pay for 3-4 years experience from consulting firms. You should start at ~ $240 and let them negotiate you down. Never be afraid of letting them pay you more!

So after "letting them negotiate you down" -- what's the actual, final, median rate we're talking about here, please?

Re: Ask HN: Machine learning contractors, how much do you charge hourly?

#20

Post by dplgk » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

krm01 wrote: post #4

It’s been said numerous time here on HN and elsewhere (read patio11’s kalzumeus.com) but just to repeat what others and myself have found to work best: dont charge per hour. Charge per day/week or month. Your goal is to work efficiently and fast. When you do this, it means you get to make more money for less time and the client gets the benefit of getting work done faster.

How can you work less AND get it done faster?