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Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#11
post #5
post #3

I would recommend you look into the history of Silicon Valley. As I understand it (and I don't know much about it), it was a lovely, inexpensive place, a very prestigious college decided to do some stuff to help develop local businesses and then some folks who really loved the place went there to start their business(es) because in part because it was so lovely. Do a bit more research and see if you can find a "formu…

Steve Blank has a nice series of posts on the history of Silicon Valley: http://steveblank.com/category/secret-history-of-silicon-val...

Thank you very much for this!

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#13
Man, living in Brazil i can attest to you that there are plenty of hackers around, but no nasdaq. Maybe it can't be done, and maybe we wouldn't really like it if we got it.

In Raghuram Rajam's book (Fault Lines) there is something about half of what a country needs to develop is capital, and part is the human organization that can turn this capital into development. As in sane institutions and sane business procedures and people. I would say such a thing is mostly lacking in Brazil, for example: We do have lots of very very intelligent, educated people but it is not critical mass --- also, it is not enough to be seen by society as a driver of lifestyle enhancement (or something like it).

It's easy to see how Americans can buy more Snickers with their salaries and assume that their society is better, but technology has changed all the rules, maybe it changed the rule that "more money is better" too.

Which also turns out to be a derisive doubt: In wanting to "make a Philippine Silicon Valley" are you not really trying to get a better pay for the same job you currently get?" It is a totally valid goal, mind you, but also a goal that means you lack a socially contextual mode of analysis.

So i would say: Be very good at what you do, and then do something with it.

Which in turn means: I only think a "Silicon Valley" thing can happen with real people doing things that they are personally enthusiastic about. Like Woz was enthusiastic about circuits, or Leonardo was enthusiastic about anatomy... and in turn those created a context whereby everyone could see how (not only believe, but see how) this kind of activity could translate in better lives for themselves.

I guess i did digress some...

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#15
post #8

If you wanted to create a hacker heartland in the Philippines you'd do well to look at what Silicon Valley doesn't provide (easily obtainable visas, bootstrapper-friendly costs of living, wage levels which allow for multiple staff with minimal investment/income). You can't compete with the Valley's concentration of investors, but you have the advantage of not needing anything like the same level of investment to buil…

Thanks. What do you mean by attracting a different class of entrepreneurs? Could you also clarify how a wage level which allow for multiple staff with minimal investment/income would work?

Simply put, in a country where US$3000 is a decent annual wage, a company founder can hire more than one person to work with them on the kind of revenue they'd need to eat and pay rent in Silicon Valley.

On the other hand, it's still quite possible for a Philippines-based startup to generate most of its revenues from wealthier countries.

Silicon Valley is a mecca for entrepreneurs looking for funding to form fast-growing, high-risk companies, and startups that need elite developers to solve challenging technical problems. On the other hand, if you're looking to start a relatively low risk, medium-return business you're less likely to get investment in the Valley and less likely to run out of cash before you start making money in the Philippines.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#16
post #14

Arguably Bangalore already has that status, it's certainly produced several multi-billion dollar tech companies which puts it ahead of most cities (both in the developing and developed world).

Which companies are you referring to? Would you be able to elaborate?

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#17
post #9
post #6

1. Don't try cloning the silicon valley, if you're in that mentality you've already failed because that's not a leader mentality, it's a follower mentality. 2. Start the change locally. Do a startup, try to hire people. Try to organize a small group of developers/hackers, bring books about programming (e.g. SICP), make them available and easily reachable, maybe translate them to your local language. If the Japanese w…

Thanks. I haven't studied much about the history of Japanese Anime but I did some on Japanese manga and I was under the impression, Anime was merely a piggyback on Tezuka's dream of having a movie version of his mangas which coupled by the success of his pioneering designs and cheap printing allowed for the type of growth that would help Anime flourish. Unfortunately for us here, this isn't quite the case from my lit…

Hey, I know what you mean, I'm also from a third world country. Though I've been living in Canada for years now so I might have forgotten what things are like.

Something that might help: Myers-Briggs personality indicator. SJ types tend to work on a corporate mind-set. Try to find NT or NF types; they might start with a corporate mindset (assuming that's the prevailing mindset around them) but they can easily change and adapt more lean strategies.

Actually, let me know how things go for you. I kinda wish I could do the same in my country.

Regarding Anime: I've heard that the father of Anime was greatly inspired by Disney. It would've been real easy to slip into a "let's try to clone Disney" mindset when you're in that position. It sure helped that the Japanese had manga before, so they had something of their own to build on, instead of just following another culture's model.

That's why I think it's best to just start with a small group of programmers, to build a solid base that could later grow into something bigger.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#18
post #17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I haven't studied much about the history of Japanese Anime but I did some on Japanese manga and I was under the impression, Anime was merely a piggyback on Tezuka's dream of having a movie version of his mangas which coupled by the success of his pioneering designs and cheap printing allowed for the type of growth that would help Anime flourish. Unfortunately for us here, this isn't quite the case from my lit…

Hey, I know what you mean, I'm also from a third world country. Though I've been living in Canada for years now so I might have forgotten what things are like. Something that might help: Myers-Briggs personality indicator. SJ types tend to work on a corporate mind-set. Try to find NT or NF types; they might start with a corporate mindset (assuming that's the prevailing mindset around them) but they can easily change…

Thanks. Good luck on your side, I'm just hoping on my side too. It all seems so far away but someone has to try and find answers to the question eventually.

From what little I know, Tezuka did want to clone Disney in a sense. Prior to this there were comics before that resembled gag manga and Tezuka, finding difficulty in amassing resources to clone a Disney movie, tried to convert Disney unto paper with the current popular drawing style of the time.

Where he became a pioneer was in the area where he saw more of Disney than the art style. This combined with other old movies he knew of made him want to "clone cinema unto paper". Thus began both the success of manga and anime. Manga in the sense of Tezuka's pioneering cinema-like over comic-style like of pacing (at the time) and Anime due to the combined work ethic plus consistent high quality works he made which made it impossible for producers to resist offering an "Anime" version of his works. (Unfortunately or fortunately, this was also what leads to the unfair and unequal salary of many manga artists today. In those early days, the manga creator literally gave away their works to allow for an animated version setting aside certain industry celebrities and the model continues up till today except nowadays it works closer to a start-up where the professional manga artist is supplied food and rooms and materials to polish their work and then having an anime of your work is more of an honor than a hand-out)

Anyways, if you don't mind, how do you envision a solid base to be? Even today it seems Silicon Valley isn't quite as solid as it is and there are talks of talent shortage and high costs of living - I'm curious what a solid base really is. Over here, from my understanding, programmers don't so much work together as they end up interning for whichever company is willing to accept them as on the job trainees. In the rare chance that there is a small group of programmers working together, they are almost immediately formed through university projects otherwise they become unknown freelancers working with their former classmates or past acquaintances.

I think the same holds true for Silicon Valley only guys like Zuckerberg comes from already elite schools and most people are dreamers and the ones that aren't but are overly skilled unless I'm mistaken get acquired by Google or Facebook and lured by certain luxuries. On our end, and again I could be mistaken, I don't think we even have a YCombinator type of start-up training and almost everyone is on the follower mindset with regards to web services because not only is the money hard to support your self with but the Philippines isn't as internet surfing as other countries. (If you were to take a web surfing pie, I would assume majority of the users are using Facebook or playing MMORPG games. I could be highly mistaken since I don't have access to professional analytics programs but lurking in net cafes these are what I spot)

There is probably a higher hierarchy of elite level programmers and designers though but not only am I hard pressed to imagine them not already working or moving elsewhere in another country but I myself don't have investor level cash to satisfy them.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. What do you mean by attracting a different class of entrepreneurs? Could you also clarify how a wage level which allow for multiple staff with minimal investment/income would work?

Simply put, in a country where US$3000 is a decent annual wage, a company founder can hire more than one person to work with them on the kind of revenue they'd need to eat and pay rent in Silicon Valley. On the other hand, it's still quite possible for a Philippines-based startup to generate most of its revenues from wealthier countries. Silicon Valley is a mecca for entrepreneurs looking for funding to form fast-gro…

Could you set an example or parameter for what constitutes as low risk, medium-based business on the web?

Aside from local clones, I'm unable to think of anything that fits that bill. Especially if we're talking medium-return businesses internationally the likes which would be considered high-return in this country.

There's things like setting up your own online shops but that kind of setting is not conducive to forming a hub. Then there's the opposite spectrum of a cheap hub, places that as you describe makes it easy for any type of small businesses to form but it's certainly not the type of setting that could develop a culture of start-up support or hacker heartland.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible for a third world country to have a Silicon Valley?

#20
post #13

Man, living in Brazil i can attest to you that there are plenty of hackers around, but no nasdaq. Maybe it can't be done, and maybe we wouldn't really like it if we got it. In Raghuram Rajam's book (Fault Lines) there is something about half of what a country needs to develop is capital, and part is the human organization that can turn this capital into development. As in sane institutions and sane business procedure…

No please continue digressing mrpsbrk. I was actually hoping you would expand more on "maybe we wouldn't really like it".

I do understand the context of your question but it's kind of a weird thing for me to answer. For you see, I don't have an "official" employed job currently and if I were to be given a choice of what to have - I would certainly choose one that is more of a freelance type of job than a static monthly salary type of task.

In that sense, it really feels weird trying to justify my "non-existant job" as a desire for better pay and one based on a socially contextual mode of analysis.

Although here I may be misunderstanding you too. What exactly is a socially contextual mode of analysis in a country who's majority core socially contextual mode of analysis as far as job goes is to lift themselves up from poverty and just have a stable life they can live on? Even if we would set aside start-ups and include those who would say analyze this with goals not relating to better pay, what is their incentive to not merely jump ship? ...and if they were to not jump ship, would they have goals to change what sounds impossible and make it not only possible but possible towards a more capitalistic friendly future and entrepreneurial minded culture or...be more of the same?

To your statement (and I do not disagree with your point mind you), I am always reminded by a section of Hamming's You and Your Research article:

"When your vision of what you want to do is what you can do single-handedly, then you should pursue it. The day your vision, what you think needs to be done, is bigger than what you can do single-handedly, then you have to move toward management."

Not that I'm saying mine is bound to have a happy ending like the person which Hamming is retelling but in a world where the likes of Woz or Leonardo are spearheading concepts to new heights, the mediocre may be the ones left to run most of the asylum and the weak (to which I include myself as being part of since I haven't succeeded in any area where I was very good) must decide how and where they would like to pursue themselves to failure. Although just to clarify, I cannot say my pursuit is necessarily Philippine Silicon Valley per se. It's just a question that I modified from my AskReddit topic.

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