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Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

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Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#11

Post by dosy »

chrisbennet wrote: post #4
dosy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0x38 is cool. Never thought about doing that. Hex years. Makes everything seem younger. I'm still an 0x20-something then, not so bad! :) I thin I'd like to get into the niche / older spaces, liked embedded / desktop, but I wanted to learn a lot about web dev / cloud first, based on interest and curiosity. I programmed in C when younger, and had an embedded opportunity a couple years ago in it which I turned down, but…

>Do you think there's more work / less applicants ( or at least a higher such ratio ), in C / embedded, etc? I don't know but I think you are on the right track thinking in terms of ratios. If there are (only) 100 jobs for technology X and 90 people with that skill, that's a good skill to have. If there are 10000 jobs for technology Y and 11000 developers for that technology, the ratio is not as favorable. I think th…

It was helpful, thanks. And sounds very interesting (last 3 projects). The kind of stuff I would be interested in probably, more so than web dev. Web is publishing, basically, and user interaction. Important, but it's not everything out there. Thanks a lot for response! :)

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#12

Post by bsvalley »

From an employer perspective, as long as the employee is a good asset there's no dead-end. To be a good asset as a developer, you need to be good at coding and somehow easy to work with. That's it for an employer. Now, from an employee perspective it's a complete different story. When you have fresh grads coming in every day with a lot of energy and already up to date with all the latest trends and technologies, no family life, no mortgages, no kids, no responsibilities. How do you keep up with that at 40? They can spend 15h at the office who cares.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#13

Post by phendrenad2 »

Is there discrimination at the average company against 35+ candidates? Yes.

Is it because the candidates don’t know the latest languages and frameworks? Sometimes, not always.

Is it because “fresh grads” have “energy” or something? Almost certainly not. What does that even mean?

Is it negated by the comments here like “oh there are 70-year-olds doing programmig where I work!”? No, that’s just an anecdote, not statistically relevant.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#14

Post by framebit »

alunchbox wrote: post #6

Not really sure if this mindset is more regionally based than anything else but as a full stack developer working in Toronto at 24 years old I've never heard of this stigma in the workplace. The past 2 companies I've worked at have all had an average age of 40+. Same story for most of my college friends now working in the GTA.

I'm in the Southeastern US and have similar observations, average age around 40+ and experience generally very highly prized.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#15

Post by kqr2 »

artsyxxx wrote: post #8

Fellows, grey bias, impostor syndrome, burnout, toxicity, anxiety and the others are all symptoms of the rigid mindstate that permeates our industry. It has to do with the curse of comfort and a lack of emotional agility which is exceptionally pronounced in this industry for many reasons which I shall not accentuate here except to state that `casual` is another word for `toxic` in my view. I would care to suggest to…

Non-shortened link:

https://smile.amazon.com/Emotional-Agility-Unstuck-Embrace-C...

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#16

Post by pieterr »

I don’t think so. Building software is a creative process that benefits from team diversity in multiple aspects. You need both young and older people. I’m 54 and still going strong. :-)

Also, not every ‘new’ development is as new as it appears; “Old is the New New”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbgsfeGvg3E

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#17

Post by AnimalMuppet »

bsvalley wrote: post #12

From an employer perspective, as long as the employee is a good asset there's no dead-end. To be a good asset as a developer, you need to be good at coding and somehow easy to work with. That's it for an employer. Now, from an employee perspective it's a complete different story. When you have fresh grads coming in every day with a lot of energy and already up to date with all the latest trends and technologies, no f…

You keep up by being better.

Those kids can code 15 hours a day if they want. I'll code 8, and I'll still produce working code faster than them. I won't waste (as much) time with flawed designs. I won't write nearly as many bugs that then have to be fixed. My code will be more maintainable.

In short, I'm more valuable than those kids. If an employer can't see that, then the employer is still at the kid level, and they aren't someone I want to work for.

But if you're going to try to compete with the kids when you have just the same skills, well, that's a hard road. You have to have gotten better over the years.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#18

Post by childintime »

pieterr wrote: post #16

I don’t think so. Building software is a creative process that benefits from team diversity in multiple aspects. You need both young and older people. I’m 54 and still going strong. :-) Also, not every ‘new’ development is as new as it appears; “Old is the New New”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbgsfeGvg3E

I mostly work with firmware, which hasn't seen much innovation, especially on small devices (finally Rust is coming along). There is no way youngsters can compete with me in breadth of experience. They are still building their toolbox and design patterns, so they can learn a lot, including from me. I value their appetite.

I see myself as a child of my time, with home-grown skills typical for a time-frame. I see that time-frame fading into history much like pop-music is doing. Going by the example of rockstars, maybe my skills will still be in demand 20 years from now, because the original author has so much more depth.

In some ways I am at the peak of my skills, more focused on results and a well balanced, easy to evolve design. But grey, so not cool I suppose ;)

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#19

Post by AnimalMuppet »

chrisbennet wrote: post #4
dosy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0x38 is cool. Never thought about doing that. Hex years. Makes everything seem younger. I'm still an 0x20-something then, not so bad! :) I thin I'd like to get into the niche / older spaces, liked embedded / desktop, but I wanted to learn a lot about web dev / cloud first, based on interest and curiosity. I programmed in C when younger, and had an embedded opportunity a couple years ago in it which I turned down, but…

>Do you think there's more work / less applicants ( or at least a higher such ratio ), in C / embedded, etc? I don't know but I think you are on the right track thinking in terms of ratios. If there are (only) 100 jobs for technology X and 90 people with that skill, that's a good skill to have. If there are 10000 jobs for technology Y and 11000 developers for that technology, the ratio is not as favorable. I think th…

> If there are (only) 100 jobs for technology X and 90 people with that skill, that's a good skill to have. If there are 10000 jobs for technology Y and 11000 developers for that technology, the ratio is not as favorable.

I'm in embedded, and I think your numbers are about right. I'd say that embedded is only 1/10th as big as "general programming" or even web programming. This means that, if you want a new job in your town, it may take 10 times as long as if you're in web programming. But it pays better, experience is more valued, and the cultures are different. Embedded doesn't have many brogrammers - it's more a world of grown-ups.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#20

Post by hood_syntax »

anon284271 wrote: post #9

I believe (vanilla) software development is a young man's/woman's game. I realized this last year at age 38 and I've been rapidly trying to alter my career trajectory. - If you aren't a specialist, you are constantly competing against 20-somethings who will always be more current in their skills and breadth than yourself, because they have more free time than you have (e.g. I have a wife, kid) - I've written GUI widg…

An example for your specialist skillset theory: Simon Marlow being hired by Facebook. Guarantee he's raking in the dough. Why? He solves hard problems.
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