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Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#11
>I am asking this because I was recently asked by my manager not to give talks in really difficult to get in industry events, despite of getting an acceptance.

This is dumb. They are just afraid of losing you, possibly because you are under-compensated and they know it. Conventions are networking opportunities and you'll likely get approached if you make yourself available at a convention like this.

There may be a corporate reason (you showing up as an employee at a questionable convention), but you should have the freedom to go as an individual and not represent the company.

If my manager asked me to do that, I'd be on my way out.

As far as managing better managers goes: be honest, admit mistakes, give suggestions for improvement, and there is almost no management to be done. If they begin to rely on you too much without giving you something in return, talk it out to see if they can spread the burden or give you more pay.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#12
post #4

If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…

agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a…

The whole post is really about understanding what the boss wants, but #3 is something more specific so I want to iterate more on it:

A lot of people want to help their boss and have a reciprocal relationship. But the mere desire is not enough - you have to have the "street smarts" to be trusted. If you don't know what sort of things will get your boss into trouble with their boss then even if you have a good relationship its unlikely you'll get significant leeway. You are likely to cause problems out of ignorance and a tight leash is to protect you from that.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#13
A few points come to mind:

1) It is none of your company's business what you do in your spare time, as long as you don't attach their name to it. However, if you are going to events to give talks using their name, their funding, or with time you have committed to them, then they do have some say in it. Whether or not their requests are reasonable comes down to the next point...

2) As other comments have said, "managing your manager" implies a mismatch in the relationship. You should have open communications with your manager, and be able to talk through both positive and negative aspects of your situation. That isn't easy for all people, but if you approach it as a communication problem to resolve, it is easier to be positive about the process.

3) If you sincerely try to improve communications, negotiate perspectives, and just aren't able to get to a place where things are going well, you have a choice to make: Live with it, or leave. If you choose to live with it, that is when a 'thick skin' comes into play.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#14
post #4

If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…

agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a…

>OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world.

OP's employer does not own them - they have a right to a private life.

While they certainly could not want OP identifying themselves as an agent of their employer when giving a talk, OP is entitled to use their free time / vacation days as they see fit.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#15
Your job should not have to include managing your manager. Your manager’s job includes preventing this situation from happening. If you find yourself spending too much time on this (and you can’t fix it by bringing it up), you should find a new manager.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#16
> I am asking this because I was recently asked by my manager not to give talks in really difficult to get in industry events, despite of getting an acceptance.

Why?

You have basically two options here: genuinely work towards mutual benefit, or deceive and "manage up" and look out for your own interests while you work on finding a better manager with whom you believe you can genuinely work towards mutual benefit.

Many companies have a rotten culture and no other manager at the company will be really better. Many do not, and the idea of managing your manager is foreign to people who have only worked such places.

If your manager has a good reason (e.g., your talk is likely to reveal trade secrets), work with your manager, who should genuinely want the people they manage to be the best people they can be - including letting them find roles or employers they'd like better, because open headcount is better than continuing to employ an unhappy employee. If your manager is scared of having excellent employees, make plans to leave. Either that manager has internalized this fear, or the company's incentives for managers (i.e., the things on your manager's own performance and compensation review) discourage the manager from helping you grow, and neither of those situations is worth trying to solve. In the first case, you can try an internal transfer if company politics permits it; in the second, you probably need to find another company.

(If you need to deceive, I'd maybe go with something like, the event expected that I'd present and backing out would be bad for our company's reputation, but I'll avoid this in the future. Then go to the event and figure out who's hiring.)

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#17
post #4

If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…

agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a…

- The manager and you have an equal relationship if you are any good at your job as you can replace the manager if you want to.

- This whole "you must submit to your boss" attitude beyond performing the assigned tasks is absurd.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a…

- The manager and you have an equal relationship if you are any good at your job as you can replace the manager if you want to. - This whole "you must submit to your boss" attitude beyond performing the assigned tasks is absurd.

From the manager's POV, OP wants an exception to some policy (written or unwritten). If you want to get away with exceptions you need more than the normal adversarial relationship.

There is a larger argument about whether you should even need an exception for this case, but the remedy for that is to find another job if you can't live with it. However your working life will be a lot easier if you learn to work around inadequacies in your chain of management - no place of work will ever be perfect.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#19
To a certain degree, thick skin, especially in the sense of not getting overly emotional, focusing on the goal, seeing big picture, having patience, etc, is always a good advice. But it's not necessarily the key part of having a good relationship with your manager.

First, the ground work - you can NOT start with what you want or demand on day one. When joining a new team or new manager:

1. Understand their constraints, goals, priorities. While you may be focusing solely on technical solution, they may have overriding cost, time, and other resource constraints. Understanding them, and helping your manager fit within them and achieve their goals will engender trust and start building a relationship.

2. Understand their background - technical, business, functional, management, etc. This will give you first layer of insight on how to reach them.

3. Understand how they like to work. Little things like: - How do they like information presented - email or in person or text message or phone? Small bites or long presentations? Ask questions as they come or batch them? If you present your information / request in way that works for them, you will have better chance of success

- How do they like / take feedback: openly in group settings, openly in private, or do you have to tread carefully

- Are they hierarchical or co-operative; do they base authority on status or knowledge or persuasion; do they lead by consensus or by direction

4. Per above, build trust, relationship and camaraderie. If you understand and help them achieve their goals, you are an ally they want to help. If you are (perceived or actually) uncooperative, unproductive, distracted, unaware, etc, you may be seen as irritant.

Now that you have a solid understanding and relationship: - As per the old (and cliched) Dale Carnegie's standby, before any request, figure out a "business case" - what's in it for them, or team, or company? If it only benefits you, it's a weak case. Almost always you can find a way to bring benefits to team, even if it's just enhancing your skillset that you can use on project, meeting customers, or something similarly indirect - Think of their constraints or objections ahead of time and address them in your request. If it's absence from the team, who can be your backup or can you do work ahead of time. If it's cost, can you make case for ROI? - Persuade them that they want this to happen. Don't ask or demand, rather present and discuss. If there's any way to tie it into their goals, thoughts, or priorities, do not miss an opportunity to present it: "As you were saying the other day, we need to reach out to the wider market and find new avenues for our products and networking. One of the ways I was brainstorming is industry conferences; upon some research I found this conference where I think we can potentially engage an interested audience", etc etc etc :>

Without more detail on your specific case, or your specific manager, the generic thoughts are all I can offer. Best of luck!

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#20
You've taken a very specific question/situation and vastly generalized it to "How do I manage my manager?" The answer is most likely, "Avoid doing it if possible," but why don't we instead begin (and maybe end) our manager-management course with the easier question, "How do I deal with the fact that my manager told me not to speak at a conference?"

If you're relying on the company for the conference in any way -- for example, they're paying your way, or you're going to talk about their technology (and even if you built it for them, it's usually still theirs) -- then the manager has the right to approve or disapprove. If neither of those two elements are present, and there are no others that I haven't mentioned, (or you can quickly make it so), then the manager needs to be told gently to fuck off, and why.

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