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Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 31 posts

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#11
One thing people often forget when talking about petroleum is plastics and many other uses that have nothing to do with converting petrol into energy.

Is there a raw material that can be used to substitute for petrol to make plastics or is there an alternate to plastics for mass production and other uses?

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#12
post #9
post #6

There is a quote from an OPEC meeting decades ago: The stone age didn't end because the world ran out of stones; the oil age will end long before the world runs out of oil. http://www.economist.com/node/2155717

And the implied corollary: Don't you worry your pretty little heads about climate change, fossil fuel pollution, or your societies being dangerously dependent on a volatile part of the world with autocratic leaders with a medieval mindset. Mankind will always invent its way out of whatever problem it finds itself in. In the mean time, fill up your tank, enjoy life and stop worrying!

It's not really implied, at least in the article:

"The best way to curb the demand for oil and promote innovation in oil alternatives is to tell the world's energy markets that the “externalities” of oil consumption—security considerations and environmental issues alike—really will influence policy from now on. And the way to do that is to impose a gradually rising gasoline tax."

Rather, the article assumes that people will worry their pretty little heads about climate change, fossil fuel pollution, or their societies being dangerously dependent on a volatile part of the world, and that will provide the political incentive to enact taxes that nudge the market to renewables. Or, if the political spark doesn't occur, the rising cost & instability of extracting that oil will provide the market incentive needed to switch over.

We already have invented our way out of this problem - solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, batteries, and electric motors exist already, as do fuel cells & electrolysis at a somewhat higher price point. It's just that those technologies are only recently competitive economically with fossil fuels. Raise the price of oil and suddenly there's no reason to use oil anymore.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#13
post #11

One thing people often forget when talking about petroleum is plastics and many other uses that have nothing to do with converting petrol into energy. Is there a raw material that can be used to substitute for petrol to make plastics or is there an alternate to plastics for mass production and other uses?

From what I understand, only a tiny proportion of oil is used for plastics and other chemicals. Transportation is the overwhelming use.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#14

A lot of things become much more expensive (likely gradually as supplies dwindle). Electricity, until petroleum-burning plants are replaced with nuclear or renewable alternatives. Travel and shipping, while we come up with alternative ways to fuel jets and ocean liners, and replace our car and truck fleets with electric ones. This cost trickles down to any goods not manufactured locally with locally-sourced materials…

>Electricity, until petroleum-burning plants are replaced with nuclear or renewable alternatives.

Except for home generators and the like, no one uses oil for electricity generation. Coal and natural gas are used, since they are much cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#15

I’m an exploration engineer at Saudi Armaco. It will be a long long time (hundreds of years) before we run out of oil; and each year we discover new kinds of crude reservoirs.

Most reservoirs are on land under earth, right?

Is oil from the ocean floor a big thing in the future?

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#16
post #11

One thing people often forget when talking about petroleum is plastics and many other uses that have nothing to do with converting petrol into energy. Is there a raw material that can be used to substitute for petrol to make plastics or is there an alternate to plastics for mass production and other uses?

I think we've developed many plastics alternatives, but they aren't in use because of high prices. I hear a lot about things like sugar for plastic bags and jellyfish for tampons and diapers.

When we do start running out of oil, the prices for this should rise quite a bit, making research into the alternative much more likely.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#17
Elon Musk's group of companies are look for complete solutions to running society without oil, mainly because they can't take oil to other planets. Everything from transportation to power generation and storage.

So if we do run out of oil, Musk would probably achieve world domination.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#18

A lot of things become much more expensive (likely gradually as supplies dwindle). Electricity, until petroleum-burning plants are replaced with nuclear or renewable alternatives. Travel and shipping, while we come up with alternative ways to fuel jets and ocean liners, and replace our car and truck fleets with electric ones. This cost trickles down to any goods not manufactured locally with locally-sourced materials…

>Electricity, until petroleum-burning plants are replaced with nuclear or renewable alternatives. Except for home generators and the like, no one uses oil for electricity generation. Coal and natural gas are used, since they are much cheaper.

Saudi Arabia as an oddity gets 2/3 of its electricity from oil power plants (the rest from natural gas and steam).

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#19
post #15

I’m an exploration engineer at Saudi Armaco. It will be a long long time (hundreds of years) before we run out of oil; and each year we discover new kinds of crude reservoirs.

Most reservoirs are on land under earth, right? Is oil from the ocean floor a big thing in the future?

Nearly 1/3 of global oil supply is from offshore.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=28492

Re: Ask HN: What happens to society if we run out of oil?

#20
Oil? Can make essentially oil from coal, water, and electric power. We can get electric power from nukes, water from the oceans, and here in the US we've got lots of coal. E.g., last I heard, a major fraction of the state of Utah has a layer of coal about 30 feet thick.
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