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Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

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11–20 of 47 posts

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#11
If your agreement is as firm as you say it is, continue what you are doing and /Sell/ the debt. You'll get a guaranteed percentage of the outstanding sum even if the ghost can't be tracked or prosecuted. The best part: No headaches, wasted time or bad PR due to dragging a client into a lawsuit.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#12

UK small claims courts. https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money You can file your claim online if it's under GBP$100k (~USD$130k). There is a faster/simpler claims process if the amount is under GBP$10k (~USD$13k). Usually this is enough, however if it gets to the point where they have a court hearing and your presence is required (unlikely), then give someone right of attorney to represent you (eg. friend, law…

This is probably the simplest approach. Of course it would be considered fiscally high risk to let any client rack up more than GBP$10k in outstanding payments.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#13
post #9
post #7

Just move on. If he ever comes back, insist on paying what he owes before doing any further work. Once he pays apologise and refuse to do any work because you are busy with other clients (real or imagined). If he doesn't come back it's not worth it to chase. On your next jobs double your rate and ask for half up front. If client is nice offer small discount at the end to keep your clients happy. People you want to wo…

Quite British advice. I would sue

Suing only makes sense if the cost of legal action is far less than the amounts owing. Engaging in international commercial disputes is typically very expensive. You probably need to retain lawyers in both the USA and the UK.

DIY legal action is doubly expensive. 1) you probably don't know the correct procedures, and 2) while you are lawyering, you are not earning an income from your profession.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#14
Random advice from the internet:

The most useful thing you can do is a "mission debrief".

+ Identify what were the warning signs of non-payment. Sometimes they will be there from the start and the client never intended to pay. In longer relationships, non-payment is part of changing behaviors and often due to other financial stresses (this is how it tends to play out in economic downturns).

+ Identify the reasons you accepted this particular job/client. It is one thing if this job/client looked like other previous jobs/clients. It is another if the job/client was accepted due to ambition (expanding internationally) or desperation (just need the work) or greed (terms more lucrative than normal).

+ Identify why the client chose you. Maybe you have a rare special expertise (though by definition, this is rarely applicable). But if your services are somewhat fungible (much more common), it is worth examining why you and not another similar service...or to put it another way, a web developer might think about "what happened to this potential client's last developer?" Was the lead outbound or inbound? Was it a warm introduction or a cold call?

In the end, the best likely outcome is a better intuition about potential clients and which one's should be avoided and a greater willingness to stop work quickly over payment and eventually a better process for assessing the financial wherewithal of people and their projects. It is unlikely you will be paid.

For what it is worth, contracts/terms are somewhat useful for defining project scope and describing the processes of work delivery and payment. Unless you are big enough to have attorneys on retainer, they are pretty useless as something to point at when things go off a reasonably happy path. Client and project selection are much more valuable.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#15

Never loan a client more than 1 or 2 weeks pay. My current client has gave me a large retainer up front but usually I try to work for more than one client so no single client owes me more than 40 hours pay. Technical competence is only 1 of the 3 things you need to be good at to make it in this business; the other two are (a) getting paid (b) finding new work

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#16
post #11

If your agreement is as firm as you say it is, continue what you are doing and /Sell/ the debt. You'll get a guaranteed percentage of the outstanding sum even if the ghost can't be tracked or prosecuted. The best part: No headaches, wasted time or bad PR due to dragging a client into a lawsuit.

Who would you sell the debt to?

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#17
post #7

Just move on. If he ever comes back, insist on paying what he owes before doing any further work. Once he pays apologise and refuse to do any work because you are busy with other clients (real or imagined). If he doesn't come back it's not worth it to chase. On your next jobs double your rate and ask for half up front. If client is nice offer small discount at the end to keep your clients happy. People you want to wo…

I actually have had a client come back and try to arrange further work without settling the last bill. Either the work was so bad it didn't deserve to be paid, or they cheated me, but not both. Its amazing that people think they can 'work the system' and extract free labor.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#18
I had a client ghost on me in this way. My contact at the company left and I had an outstanding invoice for four figures.

I sent them the late invoice every two weeks for four or five months (while I went on with other work). I always was courteous and asked if hey had any questions or concerns about the invoice. I also reminded them it was past due.

I did send them a Christmas gift (box of chocolates) and I think that is what finally pushed them over the edge.

They paid me.

It was a hassle and I wish I'd gotten a deposit upfront.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#19
It's not a direct answer for you, but here's a long (40m), popular, talk that seems relevant. Mike Monteiro: F*ck You, Pay Me (explicit language). If you're interested, I'm pretty sure its been posted here a few times with discussion. It's actually a good video to watch periodically.

https://creativemornings.com/talks/mike-monteiro--2/1

If you want a specific answer, skip to 11m20s

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#20
post #11

If your agreement is as firm as you say it is, continue what you are doing and /Sell/ the debt. You'll get a guaranteed percentage of the outstanding sum even if the ghost can't be tracked or prosecuted. The best part: No headaches, wasted time or bad PR due to dragging a client into a lawsuit.

Who would you sell the debt to?

I believe the term is "factoring". There are collection and similar companies that will buy your collectibles. In my experience, they will not buy a single collectible. Instead, you enter into a contract to sell your on-going collectibles. One company that I researched wanted 100% of my collectibles or none at all. It is a good arrangement to help with cash-flow, but in my experience the terms and conditions are such that you will probably need to increase your rates by at least 30% to maintain your present revenue levels.
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