Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
11–20 of 37 posts
Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#12It's maybe the wrong question, or part of a bigger question of how do you secure information you want to keep from a state-level actor. Your laptop may be part of that but also your mobile device, home phone, cloud services, and other people who also have access to the said data. Also how determined they are to get the data is another factor, and can they achieve what they need to another way without 'your' data.
Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#13Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/538/
Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#14Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#15Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#16First they need an RCE, probably for your browser, maybe your TLS library. For a state actor, this is not a problem. Let's assume it's your browser. They need you to visit a page with their malicious payload. They can use phishing, they can take over a site you visit. Or they can take control of some machine in the path between you and sites you visit. From there they can MitM a TCP connection to inject the payload. (They might not even need to be in the path, but most exploits to MitM a TCP connection not in your path only work for long running connections). Now all you have to do is make an un-encrypted connection to any site, and they've got you.
Now they have taken over the browser process. Maybe you decided to be safe and do all your browsing in a VM, or use something like Qubes. Then the NSA has to break out a virtualization escape from Xen/VMWare/whatever. Difficult, but not impossible, and entirely within the NSA's capabilities. Once out of the VM, they can use an OS exploit to get into kernel space, or just do some privilege escalation and load a kernel module.
From here they've got complete control of your machine. They can do disk and memory capture, capture all your keystrokes, record your screen, etc.
All of the above can be done without leaving a clear footprint in network traffic or on disk. An analyst could find it, given time, but I wouldn't trust any sort of AV program or network monitor to catch any of this automatically. Exfilling data is a little more complicated to avoid leaving a giant footprint in the network traffic. Probably the best thing is to take advantage of that staging server they set up in your path: your machine can make a TCP connection to an innocent-looking IP address and get the connection MitM-ed. Break the data into pieces and hide it in innocent-looking requests to generic places and have it intercepted.
Notice everything I've described can be done completely remotely, without any physical access, and can be applied to basically any setup you have. The bottom line: once you're dealing with a adversary sophisticated enough to be able to use multiple 0days against ubiquitous programs, there's not much you can do. Your best defense at this point becomes security through obscurity: force them to have to figure out what setup you have to progress through your system. This might slow them down enough that they get caught.
Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#17Can somebody explain in more depth whether this is likely true, or an over reaction, and why?
Is there literally no way to stop the NSA from snooping? What if I built a laptop from multiple separate components ordered from different websites or purchased from different B&M stores using heavily tumbled bitcoin and ordered to several different addresses or PO boxes from a public library, encrypt all of the drives, boot Tails from a flash drive, use a yubikey or some other physical authentication method in addition to passwords, and never connect the laptop to the internet (remove the Ethernet and WiFi cards)? Put some dynamat in the case, just to avoid some type of fancy-ass soundwave-based snooping... maybe even throw some thermite activated by 5 or 10 failed password attempts. Oh, and a super-silent keyboard to avoid password grabbing via the sound the keys make. And a pop-up visor to avoid people looking behind your shoulder.
Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#18How valuable is the information on your laptop to the NSA? If it's under $100k you're probably ok doing what Stallman does https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html . If you have information worth over $5M to the NSA, then you better get physical security personnel as well as network and hardware security personnel; maybe ally yourself with a different powerful state or corporate actor. In other words you need to…
Re: Ask HN: How would you secure your laptop against the NSA?
#19How valuable is the information on your laptop to the NSA? If it's under $100k you're probably ok doing what Stallman does https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html . If you have information worth over $5M to the NSA, then you better get physical security personnel as well as network and hardware security personnel; maybe ally yourself with a different powerful state or corporate actor. In other words you need to…
Glad to know his opinion is here well-informed. Perl only came out 30 years ago, so I guess I can understand not having had the time to learn it and just assume that it and other languages must be inferior.