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Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

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11–20 of 28 posts

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#11
I agree with all the other responses in her (delete it, tell the client, etc). But, the fact you mention this is based on PHP - maybe you were trying to hint at the system, but it sounds like you are blaming the language.

This has nothing to do with the language and could just have easily been accomplished in any other language.

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#12
I think you need to tell this to your client in written. I believe that will help in future that you did inform them and your intentions were noble.

Also, then if I were you, I would try to keep my dev and personal computer more secure. I know that I am a freak that way. :)

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#13
post #3

- Did you delete db from your local computer? If not, do it now. - Inform your client about the problem and how you can fix it. - Fix it.

You should do a secure deletion. Generally, deleting a file just removes the pointer to it within the file system--it isn't overwritten immediately, and is still recoverable.

There are free utilities out there that delete securely. If you already deleted the file, which I think you posted is the case, there are also utilities that will overwrite the slack space on your drive, which will also make the file unrecoverable.

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#14
post #11

I agree with all the other responses in her (delete it, tell the client, etc). But, the fact you mention this is based on PHP - maybe you were trying to hint at the system, but it sounds like you are blaming the language. This has nothing to do with the language and could just have easily been accomplished in any other language.

I agree with your statement - and I am blaming PHP a bit, it's gotten better over the years but I have some resentment toward it still.

I'll shift my blame to the developer for not completing their due diligence before writing software.

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#15
post #4

Obviously, just delete the file, tell your client exactly what happened and explain how you can help them secure their data better. Turn this accident into an opportunity. Why are these things always so hard? Why bring a lawyer (who will charge money fo his services) in own it?

Why are these things always so hard? Why bring a lawyer (who will charge money fo his services) in own it?

This is an awfully embarrassing situation for the company he's working for. They could decide to cut their losses and turn him into the police, betting that public outrage will focus on the malevolent thief instead of on their innocent security mistakes.

Or, if they're more worried about their liability (possibly including liability for theft already committed by less scrupulous employees or consultants,) then one way to sweep it under the rug would be:

1. Produce a serious and viable legal threat against the poster.

2. Use the threat to make him sign an agreement never to speak another word about their credit card problem.

3. End his contract.

4. Go on with whatever they want to do (fix the problem, or not) with much greater confidence that this will never publicly surface and bite them in the ass.

That wouldn't be a catastrophic outcome for the poster, but even in that situation I'd rather have a lawyer advising me.

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#16
post #9
post #4

Obviously, just delete the file, tell your client exactly what happened and explain how you can help them secure their data better. Turn this accident into an opportunity. Why are these things always so hard? Why bring a lawyer (who will charge money fo his services) in own it?

They are hard because there is always risk that an "obvious" decision will create civil or criminal liability. A lawyer can help you assess and mitigate that risk.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#17
post #4

Obviously, just delete the file, tell your client exactly what happened and explain how you can help them secure their data better. Turn this accident into an opportunity. Why are these things always so hard? Why bring a lawyer (who will charge money fo his services) in own it?

I'd like to make this an opportunity, but definitely want things done right first. Since this software isn't mine or my client's software, but a service company's, I'm a bit leery to just call them up and tell them, "Hey I have all the CC#'s for every transaction ever run through your system". So that's why I'm here asking for advice :)

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#18
post #15
post #4

Obviously, just delete the file, tell your client exactly what happened and explain how you can help them secure their data better. Turn this accident into an opportunity. Why are these things always so hard? Why bring a lawyer (who will charge money fo his services) in own it?

Why are these things always so hard? Why bring a lawyer (who will charge money fo his services) in own it? This is an awfully embarrassing situation for the company he's working for. They could decide to cut their losses and turn him into the police, betting that public outrage will focus on the malevolent thief instead of on their innocent security mistakes. Or, if they're more worried about their liability (possibl…

While this is embarrassing for my client, they're only using the software as a service. So I'm more worried that my client may inform the service company, which is even more embarrassing for that organization. I know my client won't be upset, after all they're having me make their new CMS, but the software as a service company might not be so kind.

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#19
Talk to a lawyer too. By posting this you no longer have plausible deniability in the event something bad happens down the road. For example, maybe your client is hacked and an investigation is opened by the credit card company who finds out that you had discovered gross negligence on the part of your client but had not reported it. I'm not sure if that opens you up to the chance of being sued. Somebody might have their identity stolen or the credit card company might want to recoup some costs. Maybe the client turns on you and somehow makes you a scapegoat.

Simply by posting this story, you may have opened yourself up to a lawsuit because an enterprising mind could follow your HN history and what you've posted here, put together enough clues, and find out the vulnerable system. They could hack it. No, you weren't directly responsible for it, but civil law is an entirely different beast than criminal law.

Re: Ask HN: Crap, I just downloaded over 10000 Credit Card Numbers - Now What?

#20
post #8
post #5

Is this a custom store or a package out there somewhere? The latter would be pretty scary. When I purchased a business I found a DB with all customers CC info in it while doing my due diligence (it was a crappy cart system written by some guy overseas). The seller was surprised they were there, but didn't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation ($150,000 fine for example). I had my purchase contract written to exp…

Thanks for the advice! It's a service - like shopify - but definitely NOT shopify :) I'm just starting out, in college, so lawyers aren't in the budget...

Where I live, for under $10 the law society runs a hotline which you can call to be referred to a lawyer that can help your specific situation. As part of that referral service, you get a 30-45 minute consultation for free I believe. That's all you need right now. You might want to see if a similar service is offered where you live. See my other post in the thread stating why I think you need to speak to one.
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