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Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

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Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#11

Post by nostrademons »

btilly wrote: post #5

In most cases I agree. If you can't get a job with your primary language, you'll have a harder time getting one in a language you just learned. But there are exceptions. For instance if you don't have a programming background, learning the basics of something employable is a good idea. Also some things do become obsolete. For instance if your background is VB 5, you should update your skills to be more employable. (A…

I boned up on C++ before my Google interview because I didn't know it and heard it would be included. It turned out that my interviewers exclusively asked me questions in Java and JavaScript, both of which I had fairly extensive experience in.

Then I ended up working in C++ and Flash once I was hired. Neither of which I had any prior experience with (well, I had a little Flash, mostly as a compiler target). Go figure.

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#13

Post by nostrademons »

nagrom wrote: post #9
btilly wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one point I disagree with is giving people the suggested testimonial. This may vary by culture and person, but there is no better way to guarantee my non-cooperation than telling me what you want me to put my reputation on the line as having said. No matter how good an impression I had before, I'd have a bad one after that interaction. Otherwise I agree with your advice.

I think this is fairly common. I've had two people agree to give me a recommendation on the basis that I write it for them, allow them to see it and change anything that they don't like, and then sign it. As I see it, if you're willing to help me out then I wouldn't want to take up your time unnecessarily. If you want to write the whole thing yourself, then great! But if you're willing to do it but are time-constrain…

Different people have wildly different expectations. When my mom wrote a book, she was dumbfounded that she was supposed to write all the back-flap testimonials herself, and then the person they were attributed to just had to sign off on them and put their name on it. All but one of the people said, "Ah great, I don't have to do any work, this is awesome." One person said "WTF is this?" and wrote her own testimonial.

In my limited sample size, I tend to trust & respect the people who say "WTF? It's my name, I'll write it myself" more. Unfortunately, they seem to be in the minority.

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#14

Post by gjm11 »

gnosis wrote: post #7

There are still COBOL jobs. But are they the kind you're interested in? If you're interested in, say, web programming, you're probably going to have a hard time finding a job doing web programming in COBOL.. no matter how great your interviewing/job-hunting skills are. The same goes for many other preferences regarding work, from location to the kind of company you'll be working at or people you'll be working with. I…

> you're probably going to have a hard time finding a job doing web programming in COBOL

Nah. See http://www.coboloncogs.org/ . :-)

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#15

Post by ivenkys »

ahlatimer wrote: post #8
gnosis wrote: post #7

There are still COBOL jobs. But are they the kind you're interested in? If you're interested in, say, web programming, you're probably going to have a hard time finding a job doing web programming in COBOL.. no matter how great your interviewing/job-hunting skills are. The same goes for many other preferences regarding work, from location to the kind of company you'll be working at or people you'll be working with. I…

I can easily find you a job doing web programming in COBOL. The first tech company I worked for decided to build their new task system in COBOL. I can't really remember the framework they were using (RMCOBOL, I think), but they had somehow managed to find a way to get Apache installed on a HP 3000 that communicated with a COBOL web app. Keep in mind, I'm 20, and I only really started working when I was 18. This all h…

"I worked for decided to build their new task system in COBOL" - this cannot be true .

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#17

Post by btilly »

nagrom wrote: post #9
btilly wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one point I disagree with is giving people the suggested testimonial. This may vary by culture and person, but there is no better way to guarantee my non-cooperation than telling me what you want me to put my reputation on the line as having said. No matter how good an impression I had before, I'd have a bad one after that interaction. Otherwise I agree with your advice.

I think this is fairly common. I've had two people agree to give me a recommendation on the basis that I write it for them, allow them to see it and change anything that they don't like, and then sign it. As I see it, if you're willing to help me out then I wouldn't want to take up your time unnecessarily. If you want to write the whole thing yourself, then great! But if you're willing to do it but are time-constrain…

If they ask, that is one thing. If you offer out of the blue, that is another.

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#18

Post by GFischer »

ahlatimer wrote: post #8
gnosis wrote: post #7

There are still COBOL jobs. But are they the kind you're interested in? If you're interested in, say, web programming, you're probably going to have a hard time finding a job doing web programming in COBOL.. no matter how great your interviewing/job-hunting skills are. The same goes for many other preferences regarding work, from location to the kind of company you'll be working at or people you'll be working with. I…

I can easily find you a job doing web programming in COBOL. The first tech company I worked for decided to build their new task system in COBOL. I can't really remember the framework they were using (RMCOBOL, I think), but they had somehow managed to find a way to get Apache installed on a HP 3000 that communicated with a COBOL web app. Keep in mind, I'm 20, and I only really started working when I was 18. This all h…

The best-paying jobs advertised at the state telecom are for Senior COBOL programmers. That definitely makes me wish I knew it a bit better :P (I did have COBOL classes at college, and I'm 29)

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#19

Post by owinebarger »

nostrademons wrote: post #10

I'd disagree with this. Most of the candidates I've seen turned down weren't rejected because they lack some nebulous job-getting skill. They were rejected because they don't have the CS and programming skills to do the job. The part I would agree with is that learning a new language != getting better at programming. When you learn a new language, you're increasing your breadth of knowledge - but most employers don't…

I agree with your assessment of learning a new language != getting better at programming, as well as how you become an expert in a particular field.

After reviewing these comments, it seems the interesting aspect of Giles Bowkett's paragraph is the emphasis on networking your way to a person with a need. It's easy to get blinded by the easy access to openings posted on job boards to the existence of non-advertised positions and enterprises you may not be familiar with. Rather than "job-getting" skill I'd call it "opportunity-finding" skills. Getting past HR can be a bear.

Re: Ask HN: How to look for a programming opportunity

#20

Post by owinebarger »

kixxauth wrote: post #3

Just write code. Work on open source projects, blog, twitter, and keep a GitHub account with interesting projects in it. I know that many jobs may hire by running "grep" on hundreds of resumes, but I don't think those jobs are the good ones. I think the good jobs want to hire your brain, not for any particular language, but for the overall value you can add to the company. Working on open source projects and posting…

I have to strongly agree with your second paragraph, but finding the good opportunities is the trick.
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