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Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

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Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#11

Post by simonswords82 »

AlexMuir wrote: post #5

My first filter on recruiting now is: "Has this person built anything I can see?" A website, an app, a repo on Github. If the answer to that question is 'No' then my assumption is either a) this person isn't interested in the work, or b) they don't know how to code in the real world and I'll be paying them to learn. I'm constantly amazed at the number of people applying for dev positions who claim years of experience…

I hire and manage software programmers.

In the majority of cases the best candidates are those that "code for fun". This means that they build shit that they find useful, interesting or to showcase a particular skill or new technology. It would be trivial for them to make some of this work available for me to see.

Where this work isn't available we pay potential hires to work on something for a couple of days.

There is usually nothing on a CV that will convince me to hire a person over and above actually seeing some of their work. In cases where I've skipped the "show and tell" step as we call it, my chances of making a bad hire increase exponentially.

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#12

Post by GoToRO »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #8
AlexMuir wrote: post #5

My first filter on recruiting now is: "Has this person built anything I can see?" A website, an app, a repo on Github. If the answer to that question is 'No' then my assumption is either a) this person isn't interested in the work, or b) they don't know how to code in the real world and I'll be paying them to learn. I'm constantly amazed at the number of people applying for dev positions who claim years of experience…

I'm not sure why whether I do work for free and in my spare time is a good gauge of programmer ability or that they're a desirable hire. You wouldn't judge a mechanical engineer by whether they've built a car in their spare time, or an accountant by whether they spend their spare time doing accounting. Some of us have lives outside of work, and like to spend our spare time away from a computer. I spend 9 hours a day…

I was job hunting recently and I can confirm this. Work as a developer at a previous company is better than work in the open (side project) and work in the open is better than work you can't show, and some experience is better than no experience (but having raw intelligence, willingness to learn, enthusiasm).

Then, even if the work is in the open you have to sell it to them. At one interview I didn't feel very well so I couldn't do this. But the website was on their laptop and they could have try to use it a bit. Instead they relied on questions.

Then you have the not-so-smart but with experience developer that never changed jobs and so they are now team lead etc. They ask you "how long will it take you to learn X". You say "2 months". Their reaction is "this guy is bullshiting me, I've spent 2 years learning this thing, how could anybody else learn it faster?"

Then there are the guys asking question google could answer for you. But because you don't know the answer they don't give you "the points".

After all this, they turn around and complain about how hard it is to find talent.

I'm from Eastern Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#13

Post by nimah »

Here are my strategy that I use for applying and getting hired:

1. Do not apply 100+ companies. Select max 3-5 of them. And research them. Get to know people working there. What are their problems? What tools are they using? What meetups can I meet them? Are they active on some online community? Get in touch with people there. Just talk and show interest in them. It always good to know the company before applying and dropping it, if it's not a great match you can drop it. (Just like dating, get to know them before you marry them.)

2. Fine-tune that resume. I didn't see your wife resume but I am sure it could be improved. Here are some very fine tips : http://www.slideshare.net/perlcareers/how-to-write-a-develop...

3. Build some portfolio. Anything is fine. Really. Just showcase that she understands/can write code. She can join on some open source community or just build something on her own. Better the first one, because she can be mentored and demonstrate teamwork.

4. Blog about it, the learning experience. This about as much about showcasing work as communication. If she can communicate effectively that counts as much as programming. (Actually more if she really great communicator.) Don't be shy on this.

5. Repeat from step one.

And one last thing. It is not just about what your wife wants, please be considerate about the company needs too. I know a lot of company that would be good for me, but for the company I would be just a drag. That's how it is.

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#14

Post by toomanybeersies »

AlexMuir wrote: post #10
toomanybeersies wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why whether I do work for free and in my spare time is a good gauge of programmer ability or that they're a desirable hire. You wouldn't judge a mechanical engineer by whether they've built a car in their spare time, or an accountant by whether they spend their spare time doing accounting. Some of us have lives outside of work, and like to spend our spare time away from a computer. I spend 9 hours a day…

I never mentioned spare time or working for free.

Well given that all my work is proprietary and closed source, I'm not sure what I'm meant to be putting on my Github account?

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#15

Post by jzwinck »

It seems like her H-4 EAD status might give some employers pause. First it is tied to your H-1B if I understand correctly, so if your status changes she could become unable to work. Not to mention if you decide to move to another country. Consider that her explicit status is that of a dependent, which gives a potential employer the signal that she is a "trailing spouse" meaning for her to stay with the company she not only needs to like her job and be good at it, but you need to do the same. Yet they can't interview you.

H-1B is known to be a sort of lever that employers can use to keep you at a job. She seems to present just the opposite, yet with qualifications which are a dollar a dozen.

I apologize for being blunt, but it appears to be an atypical, disadvantageous situation. You might do well to embrace it and aim for some contract work in the near term--none of the above will be a negative then.

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#16

Post by muzani »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #8
AlexMuir wrote: post #5

My first filter on recruiting now is: "Has this person built anything I can see?" A website, an app, a repo on Github. If the answer to that question is 'No' then my assumption is either a) this person isn't interested in the work, or b) they don't know how to code in the real world and I'll be paying them to learn. I'm constantly amazed at the number of people applying for dev positions who claim years of experience…

I'm not sure why whether I do work for free and in my spare time is a good gauge of programmer ability or that they're a desirable hire. You wouldn't judge a mechanical engineer by whether they've built a car in their spare time, or an accountant by whether they spend their spare time doing accounting. Some of us have lives outside of work, and like to spend our spare time away from a computer. I spend 9 hours a day…

I had one electrical engineer who applied. She put pictures of her projects in her resume. I didn't know if they worked, but because there were a lot of projects with pictures, it immediately put her at the top.

She didn't have to give me any schematics or even explain how they worked.

95% of resumes were "I am a results-driven professional with 4 years experience. Please hire me. I will work for cheap."

That girl was a fresh graduate who showed more stuff in her college months than the "pros" did. She turned out to be the best engineer I ever had, even surpassing my own skill.

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#17

Post by JSeymourATL »

curun1r wrote: post #7

If you're in the Bay Area, you might try meet-ups. There's an quite a few of them in SF [1] and most of them are hosted by companies trying to hire or are explicitly hiring events [2]. Even if the host isn't hiring, you'll find companies that are hiring by talking to people. Most will either be hiring managers or people willing to receive a referral bonus. Worst case scenario, it's free food and some interesting talk…

> If you're in the Bay Area, you might try meet-ups.

Networking is solid advice! It's also hard to do and time consuming. Yet it often yields the best results. In addition to meetups- look for applicable conferences, workshops, trade events, etc...

It's true that most resumes (especially unsolicited ones) are completely ignored these days. Here's a good read with unconventional advice on why people buy ( this applies to hiring people) > http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/75890.Little_Red_Book_of_...

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#18

Post by muzani »

Just my statistics:

I don't have a valid working visa in the US and have been applying almost exclusively to American companies.

My "interview" rate is 10%. 100% if it's with people I know, even if I'm completely unqualified.

My "rejection" rate is around 50%, within 2 weeks. I assume the rest won't say anything if they reject.

General job sites (the ones where you can also apply to be a carpenter, etc) are a waste of time. They probably get so many resumes they end up tossing half of them.

Stack Overflow Careers gave me an awesome ~30% of interviews. As in I applied 6 jobs and 2 interviewed. Both of them were jobs I didn't fully qualify for.

Generally, direct emails gave me a 100% (5/5) response rate. An email, like careers@company.com, not a form. Email lets me mention in subject line that I used to have a startup, so I stood out. Most of them rejected on lack of visa though.

I do spend ~10 minutes per cover letter. I really dig deep, like an investor would. I convince myself that I'm doing the company a favor by joining before writing the letter.

In the end, you just have to convince one company. If you have a lead, immediately latch to it... do research on the company, the interviewer, and write questions.

There's a certain bar you have to cross to convince people to hire. It's better to optimize for a few companies than to try to reach out to as many as possible. If you feel unworthy, then optimize for the lower tier companies who have lower standards.

Re: Ask HN: Getting back to the tech industry after a three-year break

#20

Post by klunger »

Create a LinkedIn profile, with links to any projects she may have done. Use the right keywords. Recruiters use this to find and contact people with specific skills.

Maybe also take a 2-3 sentences to explain the gap, with a positive spin. "For a brief period, I was unable to work, due to visa issues. I therefore spent my time on the following independent projects: ... The visa issues have resolved and I am now actively looking for work in ... ." Or something.

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