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Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

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Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#1
I, including @tptacek and others in the industry, think the coding exercise portion of the tech interview is basically broken. I don't believe that it really measures what people think it measures, and I think there are better ways to do it.

I've been working full-time in the industry for 8+ years, I've got a Github profile with plenty of code samples (full projects, small projects, WIP projects, and snippets -- the whole shebang). I've got a resume that demonstrates that I've A) held jobs for significant periods of time, and B) progressed in my career (e.g. promotions). I've built entire apps for billion dollar companies from scratch. I've led teams of developers to release features and patch bugs. I've got this huge body of work and a laundry list of references that show that not only can I code, I can code well AND do all the other great stuff that employers want. I can talk at length and in great detail about any of those things.

Yet any time I talk to a new company, they put me on the phone with one of their engineers and ask me to prove that I can code by sorting a list or settling a loan or drawing an ASCII spiral, none of which are things that I have to write from scratch on a daily basis.

In short, I join the group that believes the current code exercise thing is broken.

My question is this: As a senior dev with major bodies of work and references a mile long, how do I tell the hiring manager "Thanks, but no thanks. Here's my Github profile, and I'd be happy to walk you through anything I've written" without them just throwing away my resume?

TL;DR: How do I convince potential employers to judge me based on my actual experience and code, rather than contrived coding exercises over Skype?

Thanks for reading.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#3
>How do I convince potential employers to judge me based on my actual experience and code, rather than contrived coding exercises over Skype?

Consider the person who has the final say in the process. Be it the CTO, CEO, founder, et al. Committing to hiring someone is a big deal. They are taking a risk. Ultimately, it's near impossible to be 100% certain of a persons suitability until they are actually performing in the role itself.

When they are coming to a decision as to whether or not they should hire Candidate X, one of the questions they need answered is "Is this person technically capable". They need something to eliminate that question and all too often they rely on their team asking you to reverse a string or something to that effect.

To answer your actual question, it's important to avoid sounding arrogant but I sincerely suggest you pose your argument as succinctly as you have in your post above and run a mile if you get any objections.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#4
Startups in general are less dogmatic in hiring methodologies. We've screened candidates based on very strong personal references, Github, Stack Overflow, etc. However, we've found many people don't have a lot of available work "out there" for us to look at; at which point, we fall back to coffee meetings to establish fit, and technical interviews.

If you want to skip this "hiring manager" game, find startups that are small enough where the people hiring will be the people you'd work with. You'll get a better culture fit idea, and can be a lot more flexible regarding what they expect.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#5
> How do I convince potential employers to judge me based on my actual experience...

It's a Sellers Market for your services at the moment. You have more power in the interview process than you think.

You might try this word track directly with the Hiring Manager (avoid dealing with low-level HR Flunkies)-- I'm happy to demonstrate my skills and want to respect your time. May I suggest, that we first determine whether or not were a good match for each other. I 'd like to learn more about you and what you're working on. Take a consultative approach, have your own scorecard, and be ready to engage them in a solid business conversation. Think of this as the Discovery Phase.

Sufficiently impressed, the Hiring Manager may have power to forego the silly hoops of the code exercise. But generally speaking, the larger-the-company size the more formalized and mind-numbingly absurd the hiring process. And of course, they want to be 'fair' to the incumbent engineers who submitted to the code exercise when they interviewed.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#7

> How do I convince potential employers to judge me based on my actual experience... It's a Sellers Market for your services at the moment. You have more power in the interview process than you think. You might try this word track directly with the Hiring Manager (avoid dealing with low-level HR Flunkies)-- I'm happy to demonstrate my skills and want to respect your time. May I suggest, that we first determine whethe…

I tend to try to talk to the Hiring Manager first, but occasionally I get in touch with a recruiter first, and they stubbornly refuse to connect with a hiring manager, and instead go through their rigid process of screening. Any tips on convincing a recruiter to set me up with a phone call to the hiring manager first, rather than to a low-level HR flunky?

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#8
post #3

>How do I convince potential employers to judge me based on my actual experience and code, rather than contrived coding exercises over Skype? Consider the person who has the final say in the process. Be it the CTO, CEO, founder, et al. Committing to hiring someone is a big deal. They are taking a risk. Ultimately, it's near impossible to be 100% certain of a persons suitability until they are actually performing in t…

Yes. I don't disagree. Hiring someone is super important, and paying me is very expensive. I don't disagree that they need to be as certain as possible regarding my technical skills. I just need to figure out a way, when asked to reverse a string or what-not, to say "Look, this is Programming 101 stuff, and if you really want to know what I'm capable of, let's look at some projects I've worked on in the past" without coming across as arrogant. (I don't think it's arrogance -- I just think it's not representative of my skill level and experience.)

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#9

> How do I convince potential employers to judge me based on my actual experience... It's a Sellers Market for your services at the moment. You have more power in the interview process than you think. You might try this word track directly with the Hiring Manager (avoid dealing with low-level HR Flunkies)-- I'm happy to demonstrate my skills and want to respect your time. May I suggest, that we first determine whethe…

I tend to try to talk to the Hiring Manager first, but occasionally I get in touch with a recruiter first, and they stubbornly refuse to connect with a hiring manager, and instead go through their rigid process of screening. Any tips on convincing a recruiter to set me up with a phone call to the hiring manager first, rather than to a low-level HR flunky?

Take note of the naming convention in the low-level HR flunky's email. Substitute their name with the CTO's name and email them directly outlining your interest in working with them but highlight your concern with their screening process.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle tech interviews?

#10
post #4

Startups in general are less dogmatic in hiring methodologies. We've screened candidates based on very strong personal references, Github, Stack Overflow, etc. However, we've found many people don't have a lot of available work "out there" for us to look at; at which point, we fall back to coffee meetings to establish fit, and technical interviews. If you want to skip this "hiring manager" game, find startups that ar…

My experience re: startups is similar. However, what if (hypothetically) I don't want to work for a startup? If I want to work for, say, Amazon, in a senior/lead/managerial capacity? Assuming they have a more rigid structure, how do you leap-frog the programming exercise and jump a little further up the chain and demonstrate more advanced skills?

The coding exercises are fine for junior roles, but I think the farther up the seniority ladder you get, the less relevant those tests become. And like many others, I think there's gotta be a better way.

(As an aside, recently I had an interview regarding a tech manager role that was mostly management, less development, and they barely even asked me about technical skills. I wound up passing on the job since it would require moving, but I thought that was interesting. If I apply for a Lead Engineer position in San Francisco, I have to reverse a string or something, but if I apply to be that guy's boss, there's little to no code screening. Very interesting...)

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