Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 19 posts

Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#1

Post by kamroot »

HN had an article about how web3 is just an expensive p2p [1]. If that is the case then its core promise - of an internet where content is owned by its creators, can't be held hostage by tech oligarchs and can be moved anywhere its creator wants, is impossible to fulfill from the start. The data will have to be created by apps that are going to be coded by tech companies. What is from stoping them from adding data to the blockchain in a proprietary format? Won't that defeat the core promise? But then I can't reconcile it with the ebullient shower of praise by the likes of A16Z[2]. What am I missing in trying to understand web3?

[1] https://netfuture.ch/2022/05/web3-is-just-expensive-p2p/ [2] https://a16z.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/state-of-crypto-2022_a16z-crypto.pdf?utm_source=tldrnewsletter

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#2

Post by draxil »

The promise of all the overblown claims made for it?

I don't think anything could fulfil that!

I'm sure there are some useful applications for blockchain tech, but it's not a fundamental base for a new generation of the internet. However the desire to get out of the highly centralised corporate controlled version of the internet is a good one.

Personally I do hope the next generation is based on decentralised/federated tech. Like the "fediverse" systems such as mastodon. I think these genuinely do fulfil some of the promised claims of the web3 bandwagon, but actually have nothing to do with blockchain.

However I also doubt if the fediverse will be the future of the internet either, but it's certainly the side of the internet that I'm enjoying right now and shows what a social internet away from the shackles of the big tech companies could be!

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#4

Post by axg11 »

Web3 is a loosely defined trend and every person has different expectations for the changes that web3 should bring. Here's what I personally think web3 can do to change the internet for the better:

- Increase proportion of consumer spending that goes to creators (Apple, YouTube, Spotify, etc have egregious take rates from 20-50%)

- Create new business models where incentives are aligned. Take a look on HN at the weekly threads about poor Google search results. Subscriptions and micropayments are a no-go for services like Google search. It's time for a new business model for these services and web3 provides the framework to experiment with radically different business models.

- Permissionless (and decentralized) finance: if you live in the US/Canada/UK/France/Germany/etc then this might not be much use to you. There are dozens of countries that can benefit from permissionless access to banking.

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#5

Post by web4 »

web3 is completely overhyped and a16z is part of that hype and pouring funds into it.

the promise of web3 boosters , "everything will be on-chain" is impossible to realize. maybe best to see decentralization as a spectrum or something that lies on multiple axes.

something like an NFT on Eth with IPFS is platform-agnostic and transferable only by whomever has the private key. that owner can also self host the file if they want. but there still will be centralized platforms, pinata hosting, AWS, etc build on top of this ecosystem to make it easier and to attempt to capture value where possible (openSea charges 2.5% on each trade).

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#6

Post by ironlake »

All blockchain is a ponzi scheme. Reasons to give your money to the blockchain: currency of the future (Bitcoin) -> trustless computing (Ethereum Classic) -> trustless computing with that one bug fix (Ethereum) -> store of value (Bitcoin, Tether, etc...) -> digital assets that you really own and we ignore copyright and existing laws that might cover this subject (NFT's) -> vague web3 promises.

Next year it will be something else, or maybe they will circle back to the beginning (Future of currency! Fundamentals!), but the only reason anyone really buys in is because they believe they will make money.

A16Z has no problem running a ponzi scheme. If blockchain were actually useful, why wouldn't they just pour all that money into Bitcoin?

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#7

Post by web4 »

ironlake wrote: post #6

All blockchain is a ponzi scheme. Reasons to give your money to the blockchain: currency of the future (Bitcoin) -> trustless computing (Ethereum Classic) -> trustless computing with that one bug fix (Ethereum) -> store of value (Bitcoin, Tether, etc...) -> digital assets that you really own and we ignore copyright and existing laws that might cover this subject (NFT's) -> vague web3 promises. Next year it will be so…

there is no need to "invest" in ethereum in order to use it. if you wish to send 1000 USDC to a friend in another country, you can buy that amount, send it to them, and then exit the ecosystem entirely.

if you want to buy an artist's work to support them, you can purchase some ETH, purchase the NFT, or just send them the ETH if you'd rather, and then hold no more ETH than you need to pay gas fees.

the idea that crypto requires constant investment is something that is pushed by laser eye btc bros but is not how these networks will be used in future.

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#8

Post by EricMausler »

web4 wrote: post #7
ironlake wrote: post #6

All blockchain is a ponzi scheme. Reasons to give your money to the blockchain: currency of the future (Bitcoin) -> trustless computing (Ethereum Classic) -> trustless computing with that one bug fix (Ethereum) -> store of value (Bitcoin, Tether, etc...) -> digital assets that you really own and we ignore copyright and existing laws that might cover this subject (NFT's) -> vague web3 promises. Next year it will be so…

there is no need to "invest" in ethereum in order to use it. if you wish to send 1000 USDC to a friend in another country, you can buy that amount, send it to them, and then exit the ecosystem entirely. if you want to buy an artist's work to support them, you can purchase some ETH, purchase the NFT, or just send them the ETH if you'd rather, and then hold no more ETH than you need to pay gas fees. the idea that crypt…

Isn't this exactly why some people are buying into it now?

Entering and exiting the ecosystem to fulfill a trade takes time, and during that time you hold crypto of a certain value

An increase of concurrent trades means the value of the currency goes up if the amount of currency being used for trades remains the same.

A commitment to HODL means a removal of currency from the trading pool.

So by shrinking the trading pool and increasing the trading volume of people entering and exiting the pool in short time frames, the value of the currency increases.

Trying to cash out a large wallet would increase the trading pool and decrease the price.

You may not ever be able to actualize the full potential of what your wallet says.. but you can easily get more out of than you put in without it being a ponzi scheme.

You are providing capital backing for other people to enter and exit the ecosystem, which has value.

When trade volume increases, you can sell some of your wallet to cover the trade volume and keep price stable. If you don't, then the person who entered and exited the market during the increase will get more value out then they put in (less gas and fees)

No one needs to be left holding the bag unless trade volume decreases to 0. And there is no need for trade volume to decrease to 0 if people are aware of the currency and have access to exchanges to be able to quickly enter and exit the ecosystem

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#9

Post by anm89 »

I have nothing but dislike for anything web3 but you've constructed this question just to milk a negative answer out of people.

```

If (vaguely defined subjective thing)

Then web 3[whatever that even is and whatever it's promises even are] are incapable of being fulfilled.

```

I don't think this particularly has any meaning. Might as well just say "I dislike web3"

Me too. I'm on your team.

Re: Ask HN: If Web3 just a P2P database is it incapable of fulfilling its promise?

#10

Post by katdork »

web4 wrote: post #7
ironlake wrote: post #6

All blockchain is a ponzi scheme. Reasons to give your money to the blockchain: currency of the future (Bitcoin) -> trustless computing (Ethereum Classic) -> trustless computing with that one bug fix (Ethereum) -> store of value (Bitcoin, Tether, etc...) -> digital assets that you really own and we ignore copyright and existing laws that might cover this subject (NFT's) -> vague web3 promises. Next year it will be so…

there is no need to "invest" in ethereum in order to use it. if you wish to send 1000 USDC to a friend in another country, you can buy that amount, send it to them, and then exit the ecosystem entirely. if you want to buy an artist's work to support them, you can purchase some ETH, purchase the NFT, or just send them the ETH if you'd rather, and then hold no more ETH than you need to pay gas fees. the idea that crypt…

This seems like a quite disingenuous set of statements.

By using the ecosystem, whether through purchasing ETH, NFTs, so on, you're investing into the ecosystem.

You're inflating the amount of transactions that occur, you're appearing as a user of the ecosystem.

It's not so much constant investment so as much as by using it, you're participating in the scam, you're the guy holding the bag at the end or effectively keeping prices inflated for worthless tokens by purchasing them at the amount they're "said" to be worth.

Post reply on HN