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Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

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Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#1

Post by KineticArms »

Reading a previous thread it got me wondering about defense startups and how they bridge the gap between garage office and desert testing ground.

For those maybe already in this field, I'd like to hear your experiences. Here are some questions that come to mind:

- What distinguishes a defense startup apart from just some nerds "blowing things up in the desert"?

- Aside from accidents in testing, what are the common pitfalls of this field of study?

- Are there stories that come to mind about notable contractors that encountered problems? Notable successes?

- What legal risks are there in the development and procurement process? I'd assume just by virtue of searching certain topics or even acquiring parts you'd be having some very serious conversations with officials. Do these startups have a formal way to announce their intentions ahead of time before trouble erupts?

- What is the general consensus of this field when it is not war time? Is it generally feast or famine, or is the demand for defense tech relatively constant?

- Are these startups typically VC funded on the open market, or does your government typically fund ideas it needs/wants?

- What are the limitations of the concepts that may be researched? Surely you can't just come up with an idea for a particle disintegrator and start vaporizing cacti in the wild. Are defense contractors generally limited to missiles and things of that sort?

- What are the dominant traits that contractors generally have that make them a good fit for this field?

Re: Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#3

Post by Jtsummers »

You seem to have a very specific idea of "defense startup" as something focused on ordnance? munitions? general explosives? Most defense startups are not in that arena, they are in, broadly, information systems, intelligence, and logistics. Others are in communication systems (satellites, radios), cryptography, sensors, drones (these days), etc. Personnel and cargo transport are largely the domain of established players, but if you think you can make a next gen helicopter, ship, ground transport, etc. as a startup it's an option, too.

For all of those, there happens to be a lot of overlap (but not always as steady income) with commercial sectors. Remote sensing, for instance, is big in many industries like oil, agriculture, and even power and telecom (better ways to inspect deployed infra than sending out a person to climb towers or drive along lines through remote regions). So the feast and famine cycle can be mitigated, should defense funding dry up, by dual purposing the systems and the startup's general capabilities.

For the explosives and delivery systems:

The big difference between a defense startup and some nerds blowing things up in the desert would be discipline and proper engineering. Your best bet would be to recruit current or former DoD engineers who already know this stuff, they do it for a living. Either from bigger contractor firms, civil service ranks, or current officers and enlisted (the latter will have a good grasp on the regulations in this situation as a lot of the time they end up tasked with learning and enforcing them). Look to the research labs and existing test ranges to find people. You will also likely end up located at one or more of the various ranges because getting time there will probably be easier than all the environmental assessments you'd have to do to acquire and operate your own range.

Re: Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#4

Post by samlavery »

I'm not exactly in the space you are talking about, but in the USA, we have two broad categories for this stuff, ITAR and EAR. ITAR is the set of regulations that covers technology that only have one use, government (think missiles/night vision goggles/combat body armor). The EAR covers everything that can be used by both the government and consumers/enterprise (think quantum computing, AI, green tech, and cybersecurity), aka dual-use technology.

The difference between a defense start-up and nerds blowing up stuff in the desert is the relationship with the federal government allowing the nerds to blow stuff up. A big pitfall is not knowing you need the governments permission to blow stuff up beyond a certain size. And if you innovate in the field of blowing stuff up, and inadvertently let north North Korea learn about it, you're probably going to jail. I'm not an attorney so I can't speak to other legal risks, but watch for regulatory violations.

Generally, these types of innovations happen inside of institutions that have the capacity to comply with regulations and develop the idea. But if you invent something valuable in your garage, the path forward is probably via a SBIR/STTR grant through whatever part of the government your invention relates to. As part of that grant, you become would 'known' to the government. Other routes that I am unaware of may also exist.

I think the demand for innovation has always been there, but I think it's ramping up since Biden took office. It seems less a function of any looming potential conflict, and more a function of new funding/initiatives.

If you qualify, the government will give you a SBIR phase I and II grant as a form of non-dilutitive investment, and after that, phase III can go any number of ways. That's when VC usually gets involved.

I don't think there is a limit on the research for particle disintegrators, the limit would be on the commercialization and sale of said particle disintegrators. I'm sure the ITAR regulations have the answer somewhere in there, but check with an actual attorney before researching particle disintigration tech.

The dominiant traits, you are a US citizen, your company is owned by US citizens, the work is only done on US soil, and you aren't explicitly banned by the government (they have a list). Military experience, and federal experience and networks are very helpful, but not required if you've got a great idea.

I hope this helps. I'm still trying to figure this stuff out for myself.

Re: Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#6

Post by the_only_law »

samlavery wrote: post #4

I'm not exactly in the space you are talking about, but in the USA, we have two broad categories for this stuff, ITAR and EAR. ITAR is the set of regulations that covers technology that only have one use, government (think missiles/night vision goggles/combat body armor). The EAR covers everything that can be used by both the government and consumers/enterprise (think quantum computing, AI, green tech, and cybersecur…

I’ve seen a few tirades on HN along the lines “the kids are going into FAANG and useless startups instead of working on DARPA projects”.

99% of the time when I try to learn about some program or opportunity with the federal government I get met with most most hostile website on earth which seems to be intent on not giving me any useful information.

Re: Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#7

Post by throwaway6734 »

the_only_law wrote: post #6
samlavery wrote: post #4

I'm not exactly in the space you are talking about, but in the USA, we have two broad categories for this stuff, ITAR and EAR. ITAR is the set of regulations that covers technology that only have one use, government (think missiles/night vision goggles/combat body armor). The EAR covers everything that can be used by both the government and consumers/enterprise (think quantum computing, AI, green tech, and cybersecur…

I’ve seen a few tirades on HN along the lines “the kids are going into FAANG and useless startups instead of working on DARPA projects”. 99% of the time when I try to learn about some program or opportunity with the federal government I get met with most most hostile website on earth which seems to be intent on not giving me any useful information.

Lol yep. From my experience hiring can be much slower as well

Re: Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#8

Post by NtGuy25 »

Just like with any government agency, you bid on something called "Small Business Set Asides" and get or say you are a minority woman. This will give you bonus points and contracts that are reserved for these groups. All government bids are open and if you google it, it will take you to websites which has these contracts listed and how to bid.

https://www.sba.gov/federal-contracting This site is pretty good on the process, on that page you can look and see the "Federal Procurment system" and it has a link to it, which shows all open bids on contracts. They also have another link on there which has small business set asides.

Re: Ask HN: How do defense startups work?

#9

Post by captainoats »

Ronnie Barrett’s story might interest you, he was working as a photographer when he began development on what would become the M82 rifle. His company is now well known in both the commercial and .gov small arms world.

At a federal level in the US, licensing for traditional weapons development (outside of nuke/chem/bio) is pretty accessible and relatively cheap. Dual use tech and services work mostly just like any other consumer startup. The marketing and sales/RFP process for the government is what’s unique.

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