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Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

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Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#1
I'm intrigued by solutions to build interactive frontends using as little (or no) JS possible.

I've read from people here saying they had great productivity gains and simplicity using these options.

There are many options though with quite a bit of differences and I wanted to hear from people who have evaluated some of them and what they settled on.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#2
I've built a small project management system (as I was in need of a custom one) with Unpoly as a proof of concept. And, oh boy, it was easy and fast.

I have a previous experience with VueJS and Django REST Framework. It is nice but it's a whole other kind of work. Too many build tools, CIs, State Management hell...

I'll, if I can, keep developing with the new-new stuff (Unpoly and htmx). Probably won't be 100% of the time since it's far for mainstream technologies.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#3
Maybe you mixed up Inertia.js [0] with Livewire [1]?

I've worked with Livewire quite a bit and think it's a brilliant concept. It's very easy to get started and you get great results without much training.

However, as soon as you encounter problems or want to implement things that deviate from the standard case, you quickly realize that this is a new technology. There isn't a solution for every problem on Stackoverflow and apart from the official documentation there is very little good information.

So for complex apps, it's often better to go with VueJS which has a better and more comprehensive ecosystem. The great thing is that Inertia.js exists as a link to Laravel, so you don't have to build an API and you don't have to worry about things like routing or authentication.

[0] https://inertiajs.com/

[1] https://laravel-livewire.com/

Edit: Add more background

Re: Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#4

Maybe you mixed up Inertia.js [0] with Livewire [1]? I've worked with Livewire quite a bit and think it's a brilliant concept. It's very easy to get started and you get great results without much training. However, as soon as you encounter problems or want to implement things that deviate from the standard case, you quickly realize that this is a new technology. There isn't a solution for every problem on Stackoverfl…

I'm aware Inertia.js is the odd one out of the bunch, it still allows the server to do most of the work.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#5
As is so often the case, there's a lack of actual engineering in software "engineering". SPAs may be faster to develop and more performant or they may not. But simply declaring it to be so is not engineering. Extensive time is needed to make that determination and it must be based on an objective analysis of collected data.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#6
post #4

Maybe you mixed up Inertia.js [0] with Livewire [1]? I've worked with Livewire quite a bit and think it's a brilliant concept. It's very easy to get started and you get great results without much training. However, as soon as you encounter problems or want to implement things that deviate from the standard case, you quickly realize that this is a new technology. There isn't a solution for every problem on Stackoverfl…

I'm aware Inertia.js is the odd one out of the bunch, it still allows the server to do most of the work.

Yes, as I was writing my comment, I realized that Inertia.js does kind of fit in. Only then you really can't call the whole thing JS-free anymore.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences w “JS-free” front ends? (Hotwire, Unpoly, Inertia.js, htmlx)

#9
post #8

Am I missing something? All of the OP’s listed software depend on JavaScript. How is that “JS-free”?

these are ways to move most of the client-side logic to the server, it's not exactly no JavaScript but there is much less of it
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