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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#1

Post by messo »

For those who have seen the film on Netflix already; what are your thoughts? I am especially interested in hearing from people involved in any algorithm-driven platforms.

This is the first time I have seen such coherent, powerful and accessible explanation on the mechanics of algorithms and negative consequences of social media, and I wonder if this film can be the push that non-technical people need to take a step back and maybe even delete their accounts.

Anecdotally, it was my non-technical, Instagram-loving partner who saw this film first and recommended it to me. She re-watched it with me and is now asking serious questions about the platform and her continued use of it. She can't be the only one.

What will the cultural impact of this movie be?

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#2

Post by nikivi »

I personally never understood the value of ads. I subconsciously turn off my brain and press skip whenever I encounter any kind of ad because I know it was made to influence me into doing an action (and I don't want to waste any mental energy in evaluating whether I am being tricked or not). And most ads are bad:

https://twitter.com/JonErlichman/status/1304793136494006272

So to me the whole thing simply doesn't make sense, who actually did buy something from an ad?

The only signal I value for trying out (buying) new things comes from real people.

The privacy implications of storing so much personal data is the other question and that can be used for some bad things that isn't just serving ads. Would be nice to have a law for mandatary differential privacy for ad based social networks.

--

Perhaps I am losing out on ignoring all ads wholesale like that. I even sometimes put products that do 'a lot' of advertising in bad light and try to avoid them all together.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#3

Post by jmdocherty »

I'm a fanboi! I found this film incredibly powerful (esp. the comments during the closing credits). I've become a real bore when chatting with friends and other parents about this subject. Now I can simply say "watch The Social Dilemma" and return to discussing the weather!

I found the tips on https://www.humanetech.com/take-control very helpful to interrupt my addition to my phone (particularly the monotone one).

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#4

Post by luizfzs »

jmdocherty wrote: post #3

I'm a fanboi! I found this film incredibly powerful (esp. the comments during the closing credits). I've become a real bore when chatting with friends and other parents about this subject. Now I can simply say "watch The Social Dilemma" and return to discussing the weather! I found the tips on https://www.humanetech.com/take-control very helpful to interrupt my addition to my phone (particularly the monotone one).

It is great indeed. The only thing that disappointed me was the way they presented the increase in depression data. They mention that there was a 100 and something percent of increase, which is a percentage of 2 percentages.

Other than that, I think that it brings to light what (possibly) happens behind the covers of those systems, as it's always trying to get you back on the platform. I remember that every time I get a notification about something.

This film and The Great Hack form a great duo, in my opinion.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#5

Post by rogerdoger123 »

The problem is that many people, including my wife, are OK being shown ads. After watching the documentary, I uninstalled Instagram and logged off Facebook as I hated the thought of being manipulated. My wife (and her friends for that matter) though concerned over the impact to kids, was back on Instagram about an hour later. "I'm ok with all these ads, some are useful".

So though it should help parents navigate this better for their kids sake, I'm not sure it will impact everyone as much as we think it might.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#7

Post by robjan »

nikivi wrote: post #2

I personally never understood the value of ads. I subconsciously turn off my brain and press skip whenever I encounter any kind of ad because I know it was made to influence me into doing an action (and I don't want to waste any mental energy in evaluating whether I am being tricked or not). And most ads are bad: https://twitter.com/JonErlichman/status/1304793136494006272 So to me the whole thing simply doesn't make…

Many people buy things after seeing ads. I was running an e-commerce where the majority of customers came either from direct ads or indirect advertising like influencer marketing. It's a great way to gain new customers for a product business (although in my view the "lifestyle brand" space is pretty saturated now).

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#8

Post by newscracker »

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know, I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people.

As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much news coverage during its time (along with public hearings by lawmakers and documentaries about it) and still did nothing material to the bottom line of these companies. They've actually grown bigger and become a lot richer since then.

1. Most people just wouldn't care enough to give up these platforms. While I've been enraged for a long time about these platforms, the big gap here is that there is no good answer to the question, "what are the better alternatives?" Don't tell me that Mastodon and Mastodon clones can be replacements for Twitter, Facebook, Facebook groups, Facebook events, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, etc. Where are the nice(r) mobile apps (not just some website designed for desktops) for any replacements?

2. Governments will not regulate these platforms in meaningful ways that create fundamental changes. Regulatory capture is what's looming around, where the current biggies make the rules and ensure that nobody else can beat them.

I will keep pushing people to switch to better platforms (even if they seem deficient in comparison), but I'm sadly not very optimistic about big changes in the next decade or so.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#9

Post by messo »

rogerdoger123 wrote: post #5

The problem is that many people, including my wife, are OK being shown ads. After watching the documentary, I uninstalled Instagram and logged off Facebook as I hated the thought of being manipulated. My wife (and her friends for that matter) though concerned over the impact to kids, was back on Instagram about an hour later. "I'm ok with all these ads, some are useful". So though it should help parents navigate this…

I agree that many (most?) people will be back at their phone within hours, even after watching The Social Dilemma. At the same time I find Jaron Lanier's comment compelling; even if only a few percent choose to get of algorithm-driven platforms after watching the movie, it is enough to wedge out room for a different conversation, and before long "everyone" knows at least one or two people who have taken a conscious choice to distance themselves from surveillance capitalism.

In addition, even though most people will be back on Instagram in no-time, the movie offers a new reference point and some common ground to talk about the undeniable consequences linked to social media, without being instantly labeled a freak or conspiracy nut. Most people need time to digest information like this, and might come around further down the road.

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