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Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

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Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

#1
Hey there,

being a freelancer in Germany is possible and well-known if you have multiple clients throughout the year and follow some rules.

However, being a remote worker and employee of a US corp/startup seems to be a grey zone to me because German law requires to work maximum 80% of your time for one client only.

How do you solve that problem? Is there even a legal way to do that?

I also thought about incorporating a GmbH which then creates invoices to the US company. Nevertheless, this would introduce additional costs and probably risks (e. g. when you are no longer an employee of the US corp).

I asked some tax consultants. Nobody of them really understood what I want to do and additionally, the bigger problem seems to be the German Rentenversicherung and not only the Finanzamt.

More info: I want to stay in Germany and am a German citizen. I want to be for a significant time at the company (3y+).

Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

#2
How long do you want to stay for?

I'm by no means an expert, but when I looked at this recently (same scenario - remote worker for a US company), I found the only real option was to apply for a Residence / Long Stay Visa.

I was only looking to stay for ~1 year in theory.

Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

#3

How long do you want to stay for? I'm by no means an expert, but when I looked at this recently (same scenario - remote worker for a US company), I found the only real option was to apply for a Residence / Long Stay Visa. I was only looking to stay for ~1 year in theory.

You mean VISA in the US? I want to stay in Germany (I am a German citizen).

I would plan to be there for a significant time, more than three years.

Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

#4

How long do you want to stay for? I'm by no means an expert, but when I looked at this recently (same scenario - remote worker for a US company), I found the only real option was to apply for a Residence / Long Stay Visa. I was only looking to stay for ~1 year in theory.

You mean VISA in the US? I want to stay in Germany (I am a German citizen). I would plan to be there for a significant time, more than three years.

I'm sorry, I completely missed that you were a German citizen and assumed you were a US citizen who wanted to move to Germany. Nothing I posted is relevant to you.

Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

#7
I did this for a few years. Here are your options:

Employment by the US company:

They're allowed to employ you and have you "stationed" in Germany. You pay no US tax, and DE tax on 100% of this income. For Sozialversicherung, Rentenversicherung etc it's just as if you were selbständig. Since you're allowed to give up all sorts of rights in DE conteact Law, the US based contract is probably fine.

Contractor for the US company: this is OK too. Since the company does not have a DE presence they can't run afoul of the Scheinselbständigkeit rules. You really should register as a Gewerbebetrieb, GmbH or English Limited company though, as that solves a lot of tax questions for you. In any case as a selbständiger in Germany You should expect to get audited in the first few years... And this makes it less likely they'll find things you have to pay.

I am not a Steuerberater... But I've been in a two selbständig household in Germany for 7 years. My income was from international tech contracts, just like yours. And I went through a Steuerprüfung, where they decided that since I dont have a degree in CS, I can't be selbständig in that field. Didn't matter that I have a long resume of big organizations, and a letter of reference from the CTO of one of the biggest companies in Germany. I had to form a Gewerbebetrieb and pay back taxes for it. It sucked.

Also, good luck on finding a Steuerberater who will help you optimize at all. Technically tax optimization is illegal, so most are very cautious even talking about it. 99% are just form fillers.

Re: Ask HN: Germans, how to work legally remote?

#10
So, if I understand you correctly you'll be working on a contractual basis for a single client, full-time for a prolonged period of time.

This kind of arrangement indeed is quite likely to be classified as "bogus self-employment" by the German state pension system, no matter your legal setup. I wouldn't bother setting up a GmbH (private limited company) because it most likely won't help you anyway.

Unfortunately, there are no clear rules yet on when something is considered "bogus self-employment" and when it is not. However, there are some criteria for a setup to be more likely classified as "bogus self-employment" and other than the remote working part yours sounds more or less like the prototypical case.

The question remains, who would have to pay outstanding social security fees in that case. Usually it would be your employer. However, given that in your case they're in another jurisdiction social security might not be able to enforce that. Still, it might cause some trouble and costs for yourself (apart from the ethical issues that come with avoiding social security costs in such a manner).

The way remote employment (not consulting, which as you've mentioned, involves having multiple clients) could work relatively hassle-free in your case is your US employer setting up a company in Germany (a UG for example, which is a relatively cheap variation of the GmbH) and simply pay you from there, including taxes and social security like any other local employer.

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