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Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

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Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#1
Hi HN

I'm from Warsaw and as Germany is opening market for Polish workers the upcoming year, I'm considering Berlin as a destination - been there, love the city, like German people.

Could you give me some info:

1. cost of life and earnings, basically the same as in this topic http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1778185 (no Berlin there)

2. a quick view at the scene - are there any interesting companies, startups, etc. doing python?

3. popular job boards, message boards, where to look at? see nothing at djangogigs

tx

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#2
Berlin is fairly cheap, cheaper than any other major city in western europe at least. Accommodation prices can vary widely, they can go from as little as 200 euros/months for a studio on the outskirts. I was paying 800 euros/month for a large one-bed flat in fairly central east berlin (P-Berg).

Lots of startups, probably some doing Python, not sure who off the top of my head. Most recruitment in Berlin seems to be done via social networks rather than via job boards, so your best bet might be to get involved with the startup community and get some leads from there.

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#3
1. cost depends on your location - central is no longer cheap 2. there are a lot of startups but I'm not sure which one is developing in python

try this map to find startups http://www.businesslocationcenter.de/de/B/iii/1/seite11.jsp

there seems to be a django Berlin group http://groups.google.com/group/django-berlin

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#4
Somewhat related...

As opposed to Berlin specifically, how should an American software engineer get a job in a different country? I'd like to experience different cultures and I'd like to move to another country (after finding a job) but I'm not sure how I should go about doing it.

Initially, I think western Europe is the most ideal place since I do not know any other languages, some place where many people spoke English would be ideal.

If anyone has any tips for how an American (with no foreign contacts, or fluency in other languages) can land a job in a western European country, I'd be very interested in hearing them.

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#5
post #4

Somewhat related... As opposed to Berlin specifically, how should an American software engineer get a job in a different country? I'd like to experience different cultures and I'd like to move to another country (after finding a job) but I'm not sure how I should go about doing it. Initially, I think western Europe is the most ideal place since I do not know any other languages, some place where many people spoke Eng…

In Scandinavia, language is a non-issue. Everyone speaks English, and many tech shops use English for all written communication.

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#6
There are a lot of jobs in tech, but they mostly seem to be small companies trying to pay little. So to get by at 15€ a hour, you'll probably find a lot of offers.

Accommodation is cheap, I pay 400€ for 50sqm, a friend of mine pays 550 for 70sqm with 3 rooms. That's in a central part of town. In general, between 320 - 600 you can find a pretty reasonable place for a person to live alone.

Döner costs €2.50, a chinese meal off a stall costs €3.00, a restaurant meal in some small restaurant 5€ or 6€, in some normal restaurant maybe 9€ to 12€. Beer costs €3 in most clubs and bars, cocktails €4.50 to €8.00.

Transport costs €70 a month for the train? Not so sure about this. Parking is easy on the outskirts, but the very center of town you usually need to pay in a parkhouse.

Lots of english speaking people, and it's very popular for euro-immigrants (france, england, spain, etc), so a very western europe scene, and very easy to get by on english only.

Berlin generally has a bad work climate (I've heard people say), so if I were you, I'd apply for 10-20 jobs from Warsaw, then come over, stay a week in a ferienwohnung, do all the interviews and if you find one you like, move here. Moving without a job could put you under undue pressure. Warsaw is just 4 hours by train, is it not?

I believe there are a lot of young companies in Berlin, so I don't think the Airbus style jobs are really available here.

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#7
post #4

Somewhat related... As opposed to Berlin specifically, how should an American software engineer get a job in a different country? I'd like to experience different cultures and I'd like to move to another country (after finding a job) but I'm not sure how I should go about doing it. Initially, I think western Europe is the most ideal place since I do not know any other languages, some place where many people spoke Eng…

Scandinavia and the Netherlands are easy destinations for Americans. Ordinary people speak good English for the most part, and even those who claim not to speak English actually understand the language quite well (mostly thanks to decades of exposure to subtitled American TV shows).

At least here in Finland, English has become the de facto working language at many companies and university departments. Nowadays there is almost always at least one non-Finn in any team, and nobody assumes that foreigners would ever learn Finnish. In large European countries like Germany and France, it's still often assumed that you'll adapt to their language and way of thinking (the French in particular will take it for granted that you're there to absorb the radiant glow of their superior cultural heritage ;)).

Northern Europe is also pretty good for finding IT jobs. Finland has Nokia, Sweden has Ericsson, Netherlands has Philips, Norway has... lots of oil money, I guess. And Denmark is simply a fun place. Take your pick ;)

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#8
post #4

Somewhat related... As opposed to Berlin specifically, how should an American software engineer get a job in a different country? I'd like to experience different cultures and I'd like to move to another country (after finding a job) but I'm not sure how I should go about doing it. Initially, I think western Europe is the most ideal place since I do not know any other languages, some place where many people spoke Eng…

In the UK, English is (unsurprisingly) widely spoken, but it's a little different to the English you're used to.

Expect endless confusion over faggots (meatballs), football (soccer) and the myriad of ways to describe the weather.

They also speak English in Ireland, you can get by fine almost on English alone in most of Holland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and bits of Germany.

You'll probably find England the easiest to deal with and it makes a good base. Ireland is lovely but at the moment the job market isn't so great. The economy's very shaky here in England too, but people are hiring for tech jobs.

Your best bet is to try and get transferred through an international company, find a UK-based company that will sponsor a visa (hard, as there's plenty of tech workers here), or come over to study on a visa that will allow you to find work here after you graduate.

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#9
post #4

Somewhat related... As opposed to Berlin specifically, how should an American software engineer get a job in a different country? I'd like to experience different cultures and I'd like to move to another country (after finding a job) but I'm not sure how I should go about doing it. Initially, I think western Europe is the most ideal place since I do not know any other languages, some place where many people spoke Eng…

I'm an american, only speaking english, I've worked in Germany and work in the UK right now. Basically stick to the following areas:

1. Scandinavia/Nordic areas - Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland

2. UK - Obvious english speaking choice ;)

3. "Germanic" - Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland

Countries like France, Spain, Italy, etc are very difficult for a non-native speaker.

Getting a visa in the UK is quite difficult (especially because recent administration). Not sure about the other areas but I imagine its quite easy. My german stay was through a large corporation (40K+ employees) and my current work I had the difficulty of getting a tier 1 uk visa on my own.

What programming languages and business areas are you interested in?

Re: Ask HN: Berlin - costs of living, python jobs?

#10
Ramen-style about 600€/month (living with a roommate, prepare your own meals -> maybe it could be even lower if don't go out at all, don't buy new clothes, ride a bike instead of public transportation... )

Have your own space, go out sometimes, take cab once in a while... about 1.200€+/month (obviously open end).

Add at least another 130€/month for health insurance.

Unfortunately I don't know about any python gigs but if you are familiar with RoR, let me know... As a freelancer (RoR) you should get something between 300€ - 800€ / day (deepending on your experience).

Update: For Startup-Jbs you might want to check out: http://www.deutsche-startups.de/startups-jobs/stellenangebot... (not only programming and not only Berlin).

Another place would be: http://www.jobisjob.de/berlin/ruby/jobs (Rubyjobs in Berlin)

You might also consider to get an (free) account at www.xing.com (kind of Germanys LinkedIn which is used by many recruiters).

If you would consider/interested in working for a non-profit (including non-profit pay ;-(, please check out www.betterplace.org or www.spenden.de (the later will relaunch soon). They are/will be done with RoR and are sometimes looking for programmers (mostly freelancers). If interested I might be able to help here.

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