It seems to me that many developers care more about tools. They are happy to join any team that uses cool new technologies even if they don't care about the product they are building at all.
Am I wrong? Am I just a nagging idealist?
Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
1–10 of 32 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#2Both are important. The end product has to be nice/useful for deeper motivation. The tools in use can indicate the philosophy of the business and give hints about the general ambiance of the job. Who would choose to spend 40 hours per week with tools that makes them feel underproductive?
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#3Let me ask you one question though - Can you think of any steps during the hiring process where the interest in a product from a candidate is highlighted?
Besides the usual 15 minute monologue from recruiters trying to do keywords matching, briefly talking about the company (you can google most of it). I can't remember anyone asking me about my vision regarding any products I worked on during the interview process. After that 1st phone call it's not about the product or the company anymore, it's all about testing you like a college kid getting ready for an exam. Now it's about you wanting to join their team. Not them trying to convince you to join.
What would be a solution? Hire people who care about the product, not only the company logo. It's cool if you know how to write a function in order to find the shortest path in a graph. It's awesome if you love using a pen on a whiteboard. How about asking you how you could improve our product? What problems do you think could be solved within a specific industry? So, looks like the hiring process has to be completely re-written.
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#4Both are important. The end product has to be nice/useful for deeper motivation. The tools in use can indicate the philosophy of the business and give hints about the general ambiance of the job. Who would choose to spend 40 hours per week with tools that makes them feel underproductive?
Agreed. But if the product doesn't do any good to the world, can you have ANY motivation at all? Even if the tech is awesome
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#5Let me ask you one question though - Can you think of any steps during the hiring process where the interest in a product from a candidate is highlighted? Besides the usual 15 minute monologue from recruiters trying to do keywords matching, briefly talking about the company (you can google most of it). I can't remember anyone asking me about my vision regarding any products I worked on during the interview process. A…
Startups actually care. You often see interest in their product/industry as one of requirements.
But large companies care much less. It's much more important for them to find a person who will be effective with their well defined processes.
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#6I happen to be building tools, so yes :D
Seriously though, the larger industry I am in and the purpose of my employer is to make video games. I make tools to make video games. I am invested in the tools I produce. I am less invested in the types of games we make from a playing them perspective (in that they're not really the kinds of games I usually like to play), and don't really care or keep up with most of the public design debates etc that we often have running about our games. But I am very invested in our games from a pride-in-our-work-as-a-studio perspective. I want to help make good products, both for the teams I service through my tools development and for the end product my employer puts out to external consumers.
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#7Let me ask you one question though - Can you think of any steps during the hiring process where the interest in a product from a candidate is highlighted? Besides the usual 15 minute monologue from recruiters trying to do keywords matching, briefly talking about the company (you can google most of it). I can't remember anyone asking me about my vision regarding any products I worked on during the interview process. A…
Startups actually care. You often see interest in their product/industry as one of requirements. But large companies care much less. It's much more important for them to find a person who will be effective with their well defined processes.
Not all startups care unfortunately, it is not specific to large companies :) How many times I hear things like "come join us, we're backed by XYZ", "We have raised $ABC", "our founders are ex people from 123 Inc.". Since there's no brand or value built over time yet, they have to find ways to attract developers. At the end of the day, it's hard to find great developers.
If your mission as an early stage startup is to disrupt the yoga industry for example (no offense to this industry at all), then you might quickly run out of options in terms of product/mission fit if you only use a whiteboard as your primarily evaluation tool. I really believe the hiring process is totally broken because it's not taking into account the ability for candidates to learn and the business impact they could have on a product. It's all about what they know in the moment and what technologies they've worked with.
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Startups actually care. You often see interest in their product/industry as one of requirements. But large companies care much less. It's much more important for them to find a person who will be effective with their well defined processes.
Not all startups care unfortunately, it is not specific to large companies :) How many times I hear things like "come join us, we're backed by XYZ", "We have raised $ABC", "our founders are ex people from 123 Inc.". Since there's no brand or value built over time yet, they have to find ways to attract developers. At the end of the day, it's hard to find great developers. If your mission as an early stage startup is t…
Ok, if you are going to disrupt the yoga industry, I'll join you even if you are not backed by "XYZ" :D
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not all startups care unfortunately, it is not specific to large companies :) How many times I hear things like "come join us, we're backed by XYZ", "We have raised $ABC", "our founders are ex people from 123 Inc.". Since there's no brand or value built over time yet, they have to find ways to attract developers. At the end of the day, it's hard to find great developers. If your mission as an early stage startup is t…
Ok, if you are going to disrupt the yoga industry, I'll join you even if you are not backed by "XYZ" :D
I probably picked up a wrong example :)
Re: Ask HN: Do you care about the product you are building?
#10Let me ask you one question though - Can you think of any steps during the hiring process where the interest in a product from a candidate is highlighted? Besides the usual 15 minute monologue from recruiters trying to do keywords matching, briefly talking about the company (you can google most of it). I can't remember anyone asking me about my vision regarding any products I worked on during the interview process. A…
> How about asking how you could improve our product?
I often have ideas along those lines but they are not usually welcome. Improvements of that nature are supposed to come from product manager/designer, not a jira ticket machine AKA dev