...huh, I was wondering why serial machine code prankster xoreaxeaxeax was keeping lists of extremely long-running instructions. Hopefully this is at least only possible in kernel mode, right? Right?!
Given that you can connect essentially PCIe devices thru USB it is probably exploitable? Find out which device is accessible to user and does MMIO, emulate it on FPGA, make it slooooooooow. All it needs to do is for driver to trigger a "right" access". GPU comes to mind
Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
41–50 of 77 posts
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#42Technically this is not a vulnerability because you need to be root. I would rather call it "taking back control of your hardware". SMM is an evil thing because the user cannot control it or look into SMM memory region. Why do CPU vendors implement a mode that cannot be controlled by the user? Obviously to use it in user-hostile purposes (software copying prevention and reporting, DRM, government access backdoors, et…
It's even worse than that. It's gotten to the point that "operating systems" aren't actually operating the system anymore. Linux is just the "user OS", a tiny blip on the overall system schematics. Just some app to be sandboxed away from the real system.
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#43Almost nothing from this GitHub profile posted until the last four days. From a meta perspective what is going on? What am I missing? Why is this GitHub profile suddenly getting massive attention and making front page so frequently?
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#44Technically this is not a vulnerability because you need to be root. I would rather call it "taking back control of your hardware". SMM is an evil thing because the user cannot control it or look into SMM memory region. Why do CPU vendors implement a mode that cannot be controlled by the user? Obviously to use it in user-hostile purposes (software copying prevention and reporting, DRM, government access backdoors, et…
You're Intel. The year is somewhere around 1989. Your hardware interface that you export to regular software has gotten complex enough that you want to implement some of it in some kind of software that you can implement at a higher level than just logic. You also maybe want your hardware partners (ie. motherboard and system manufacturers) to be able to change parts for their implementations. Additionally some of this code might eventually end up being hard real time with the possibility of damaging the chip if it doesn't run at the correct window (think power management). You don't have the area budget for rewritable microcode of the size you'd want; this code has to live in DRAM.
You look around at the system software people are running on x86. At the highest quality you've got OS/2, and it goes downhill fast from there. Most end users are running DOS (from several vendors). So you write a higher privilege mode that runs underneath DOS, can actually be pretty close to a tiny RTOS kernel, and document it. But the whole point is to be relatively transparent, and definitely inaccessible to kernel mode, which you don't trust to pull its own pants up after it uses the bathroom.
Then later, when your corporate vendors are asking you to secure the boot chain, it only makes sense that this mode is also cryptographically signed.
And I think this is a more interesting story (and probably closer aligned to the truth). That is, we can get to an anti-user feature that can't be truly owned by the final customers through small steps where each felt like a pro-user customer product decision.
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#45Technically this is not a vulnerability because you need to be root. I would rather call it "taking back control of your hardware". SMM is an evil thing because the user cannot control it or look into SMM memory region. Why do CPU vendors implement a mode that cannot be controlled by the user? Obviously to use it in user-hostile purposes (software copying prevention and reporting, DRM, government access backdoors, et…
That being said, there are benefits of having SMM protect firmware integrity from a malicious/compromised kernel. On most AMD64 platforms, SPI flash can only be written to by SMM and that is a foundational piece of the PC security model (FW update, authenticated UEFI variables, etc). This has nothing to do with copy protection, DRM, or backdoors.
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#46Unclear why there is a 1 second timeout at all. Presumably the patch for that will be to make it an infinity timeout.
> Remove the timeout, and a legitimately stuck core hangs the platform on the first SMI. Increase the timeout, and you kill performance on many-core platforms that are forced to quiesce all cores every SMM entry. It's not clear what the best path forward is, or if there is even a path forward at all.
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it is critical it should not be running on same cores
Using the example above, if a CPU core is overheating, can you down clock that core using and instruction run on another core? I don't actually know that much about how the hardware actually works at that level, so I am genuinely asking.
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#48Technically this is not a vulnerability because you need to be root. I would rather call it "taking back control of your hardware". SMM is an evil thing because the user cannot control it or look into SMM memory region. Why do CPU vendors implement a mode that cannot be controlled by the user? Obviously to use it in user-hostile purposes (software copying prevention and reporting, DRM, government access backdoors, et…
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#49Technically this is not a vulnerability because you need to be root. I would rather call it "taking back control of your hardware". SMM is an evil thing because the user cannot control it or look into SMM memory region. Why do CPU vendors implement a mode that cannot be controlled by the user? Obviously to use it in user-hostile purposes (software copying prevention and reporting, DRM, government access backdoors, et…
(The fact that there is such a thing as a higher privilege level than root is what annoys people).
Re: Exploiting System Management Mode with a very long interrupt
#50Almost nothing from this GitHub profile posted until the last four days. From a meta perspective what is going on? What am I missing? Why is this GitHub profile suddenly getting massive attention and making front page so frequently?