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I won't read LLM authored fiction

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Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#111

Post by JohnFen »

delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #70
Gander5739 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be impressed if you could link to some human generated music that everyone will agree is good.

I wonder if anyone anywere actually thinks Beethoven’s 9th is bad . But that’s not the point is it. I can link you plenty of music that was absolutely lambasted and despised when it first was performed and today is recognised as classics. Plenty of people hated while many loved it. Rites of Spring, Charlie Parker, Miles David and Coltrane where all moved people against or for, created energy, created something which…

> Plenty of people hated while many loved it.

I think this is a hallmark of successful art. The point of art is emotional communication. If someone reacts very negatively to a piece of art, that still means an emotional communication happened. If it's an honest and resonant emotional communication, then some people will react negatively to it and others positively.

Every artist I've ever known would prefer to get negative reactions to their art over not getting a reaction at all.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#112

Post by [deleted] »

foxglacier wrote: post #69
sevenzero wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for showing again that people on this platform have little to no empathy, only care about businesses and money and have no understanding of art in general :-) Shows why I don't befriend tech savvy people usually.

Do you have empathy for rent-seekers in other domains when they get undercut by cheaper alternatives? Property investors? patent trolls? Record labels that own the rights to music from long-dead artists finally reaching the end of their copyright terms? Commercial artists are businessmen out to make a profit just like all those others I listed. They're not some magical monks that society needs to protect and shield f…

[deleted]

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#113

Post by amberjack »

x1n13y84issmd42 wrote: post #108
amberjack wrote: post #19

I would like to read "actual" LLM fiction in the same sense I would like to read fiction from a lion. I wonder if that kind of alien writing is even possible with this kind of technology. The RL process would have to be quite different at least and even then it is still using human content as the base. Anyone seen any good or even decent or OK fiction of this type?

One of my favorite childhoods stories was told from a perspective of an arctic fox. It wasn’t a cartoonish “Lion King” type of story but pretty serious and mature stuff.

Reading your comment I suddenly remembered the existence of Stephen Baxter's Mammoth Trilogy. No idea if it is any good but I should probably try reading it.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#114

Post by cognitiveinline »

Devasta wrote: post #105
cognitiveinline wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unhealthy, your attitude. When you have such disdain for "piggies", and hold your opinion as the true one, on a very subjetive question, well, it's very pitiable.

Someone who likes Shakespeare is going to be able to talk about what they like about Shakespeare, his impact on language, his works, and so on. Someone who likes Austen is going to be able to talk about the themes of the books, how funny Pride and Prejudice is, maybe how Jane Austen's position in society informed her works, etc. How is anyone going to be able to do the same for an AI generated book? "Reading book 894…

This would have been a much better comment as is, originally, instead. I disagree with your thesis, but at least it would have been worth engaging with.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#115

Post by [deleted] »

aleda145 wrote: post #65
jalev wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in why you feel like this. Do you take this action because you can't trust traditional channels (blogs, established tradpub authors, Goodreads et al) to self-curate LLM writing out of the pool of available literature you would normally be aware of?

Yeah I think it boils down to trust issues. I can't know how the text was created. Anything created before 2023 I know that at least a human had to invest a significant amount of time to produce the story. Maybe I'm a bit too reactionary though. Thinking about it some more I would absolutely read something if it was recommended by a trusted source (which in my case is almost always a human I know in the physical worl…

[deleted]

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#116

Post by km3r »

dgellow wrote: post #33
km3r wrote: post #30

While I understand the hesitancy for LLM fiction, I do look forward to LLM powered games, *IF DONE RIGHT*. I imagine a game like Skyrim, where each character has handwritten backstory and dialogue, with an LLM extending that. Having the city guard dynamically react to what you do, stay in character, and even point you to new POI from those conversations seems like a very cool new dimension in storytelling. I took a c…

Sounds like a fun gimmick for maybe a month. And something that will be getting really tiring really fast. And imagine the PR horror when people start jail breaking the NPC LLMs

I dont think it should be a PR horror anymore than someone using photoshop to make a disturbing image. I get that is not quite the current reaction, but i dont see why it should be that way.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#117

Post by km3r »

mxmlnkn wrote: post #92
km3r wrote: post #30

While I understand the hesitancy for LLM fiction, I do look forward to LLM powered games, *IF DONE RIGHT*. I imagine a game like Skyrim, where each character has handwritten backstory and dialogue, with an LLM extending that. Having the city guard dynamically react to what you do, stay in character, and even point you to new POI from those conversations seems like a very cool new dimension in storytelling. I took a c…

I have been imagining this since GPT-3. I still only know of very few games making use of LLMs. There are add-ons for Skyrim, and web search points me to NVIDIA's ACE autonomous game characters framework and games such as InZOI, PUBG's ACE-powered AI teammate, Dead Meat (unreleased interrogation game), AI Dungeon, Suck Up!, Vaudeville, and more. It seems there are a few more than I would have thought, but the smaller…

A harness can definitely still make it "deterministic":

if (responses > 3) prompt.md += "Divert the conversation to bring up QUEST4.md"

I look at it a lot like procedural generation. It can be done well if used in the right spots and enough handwritten/tweaked stuff to make sure it feels right.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#118

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

Is there such a thing as "LLM authored fiction"

Can LLMs distinguish between non-fiction and fiction, i.e., true and false

The literature on LLMs states that LLMs sometimes output falsehoods irrespective of whether the persons using them have prompted for non-fiction or fiction

The papers imply that it is up to the person using the LLM to distinguish what is true from what is false

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#119

Post by tempfile »

raincole wrote: post #47
tempfile wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you just find authors you like and respect, that you trust not to write slop? Why go all cabin-in-the-woods about it?

Because there are also thousands (millions?) of such non-slop-books published before 2023?

You can't find new artists because art already exists? I feel like you're ignoring my question. It is not a good solution to "art is slop" to decouple yourself financially from all human artists. Your choice is making human art less sustainable.

Re: I won't read LLM authored fiction

#120

Post by INTPenis »

cung wrote: post #49
INTPenis wrote: post #4

Afaik I have yet to encounter LLM fiction, but I have seen plenty of AI generated music and it truly disgusts me. Each to their own but to me a large part of music was always the life experience of the person making it. I'm listening to their life, their love, their pain in music form. Without an interesting human behind it, art loses all magic to me. That's why it's beyond annoying that my own brother absolutely lov…

I have been listening to a whole lot of AI music and it is often better than human generated. I foresee an immense unavoidable shift in the music industry due to this. It is already impossible to distinguish what is AI and and what is human generated music.

As much as I hate to say it, I agree.

I also foresee a huge shift in the music industry. Because a lot of music lovers are not like me, they don't care about the artist behind the music, just the music itself.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

But it is a scary future when a huge part of music produced will come from a computer.

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