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AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

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11–20 of 39 posts

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#11
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More regulation. Specifically requiring worker-owned means of production: re-organize the AI model companies as mutuals and mandate (by law) that their only customers can be individual-contributor-level workers or worker unions. Ditto with robotics.

Yes, because communism has always worked out so well in the past.

Capitalism is failing us right now. Why are you looking in the past?

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because communism has always worked out so well in the past.

Capitalism is failing us right now. Why are you looking in the past?

I would look to the past, but only as far back as free market capitalism, to replace the crony capitalism that we have right now in the US. Both have their issues, but nothing compared to communism. There's still time to correct course without that nonsense being involved.

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#13
post #4
post #2

Higher corporate taxes and local control please, thanks.

More regulation. Specifically requiring worker-owned means of production: re-organize the AI model companies as mutuals and mandate (by law) that their only customers can be individual-contributor-level workers or worker unions. Ditto with robotics.

>worker-owned means of production

On a similar note I keep thinking that having your "content" used as training material for a model ought to entitle you to a proportional stake.

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is failing us right now. Why are you looking in the past?

I would look to the past, but only as far back as free market capitalism, to replace the crony capitalism that we have right now in the US. Both have their issues, but nothing compared to communism. There's still time to correct course without that nonsense being involved.

> I would look to the past, but only as far back as free market capitalism, to replace the crony capitalism that we have right now in the US.

Free market capitalism won't save us from a future were automation reaches a point that it creates a large, unemployable underclass. And that's the future the tech and business elite have been promising us (at least until they belatedly realized that was the quiet part they shouldn't be saying out loud).

I'm going to take their word on those promises, when considering regulation to constrain them.

> Both have their issues, but nothing compared to communism. There's still time to correct course without that nonsense being involved.

I would like a communism that is basically capitalism, but with the capital more-or-less evenly distributed among the workers. Keep a lot of the economic system, but replace it with other things: mutuals, worker-owned businesses, maybe 50-50 JVs between labor and investors, some "all of the above" combination, etc.

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#15
post #4
post #2

Higher corporate taxes and local control please, thanks.

More regulation. Specifically requiring worker-owned means of production: re-organize the AI model companies as mutuals and mandate (by law) that their only customers can be individual-contributor-level workers or worker unions. Ditto with robotics.

You realize that the folks with these fortunes are the workers who built the companies, right? If there's one place that's "worked-owned" it's a startup. And the VCs who also ended up with stocks did quite a bit of work along the way-- as well as investing capital.

We're not talking about widows with a pension who are just interested in dividends. This isn't some utility.

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#16
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because communism has always worked out so well in the past.

Capitalism is failing us right now. Why are you looking in the past?

You should move to Venezuela or Cuba. Then see how it's "failing".

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#17
post #4
post #2

Higher corporate taxes and local control please, thanks.

More regulation. Specifically requiring worker-owned means of production: re-organize the AI model companies as mutuals and mandate (by law) that their only customers can be individual-contributor-level workers or worker unions. Ditto with robotics.

> worker-owned means of production

Sounds great! If I'm a worker who owns the means of production and I want to sell that stake to someone else, am I allowed to do so? If not, do I actually "own" anything?

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#18
post #2

Higher corporate taxes and local control please, thanks.

Is there some way to disabuse people of the notion that higher taxes would help here? Taxes don't really affect entity size. In significant ways they do the opposite, because business expenses are deductions, so using profits for expansion becomes more favored over paying them out as dividends the more you increase the tax rate.

What you need here is antitrust enforcement and lower barriers to entry so that there are more companies that are each smaller, and correspondingly more millionaires and fewer billionaires.

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#19
post #2

Higher corporate taxes and local control please, thanks.

Is there some way to disabuse people of the notion that higher taxes would help here? Taxes don't really affect entity size. In significant ways they do the opposite, because business expenses are deductions, so using profits for expansion becomes more favored over paying them out as dividends the more you increase the tax rate. What you need here is antitrust enforcement and lower barriers to entry so that there are…

> Taxes don't really affect entity size.

A progressive tax would, no? You could explicitly tax larger entities more.

Re: AI Fortunes Are Reviving an Old Debate About Private Power

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would look to the past, but only as far back as free market capitalism, to replace the crony capitalism that we have right now in the US. Both have their issues, but nothing compared to communism. There's still time to correct course without that nonsense being involved.

> I would look to the past, but only as far back as free market capitalism, to replace the crony capitalism that we have right now in the US. Free market capitalism won't save us from a future were automation reaches a point that it creates a large, unemployable underclass. And that's the future the tech and business elite have been promising us (at least until they belatedly realized that was the quiet part they sho…

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