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Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

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Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#91

Post by wink »

Flaiming wrote: post #17

There are definitely some data missing, because in Czechia where I live there are some areas on the map with 100% decline in population like Libavá and Březina, which definitely have some population. I don't know about any village that would be totally de-populated. https://obyvateleceska.cz/olomouc/libava/503941

It's a bit weird and maybe more complicated.

I checked the area around Munich, Germany (where I live).

- one is an actual lake (correct shape) that went down to 0 from a bogus 1

- three are actual forests/parks which may have had some sorts, but 11/16/48 to 0 is a rounding error, but there is no filter for absolute, it technically is -100%...

- bit further out is another lake with 14 to 0

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#92

Post by znpy »

Speaking as an Italian: during the pandemic and the immediate post-pandemic there was a huuuge trend of people moving back to the South because now with remote working they could effectively bring their job with them.

Then the Government did little to nothing to encourage that, and at some point the trend essentially died.

Needless to say, a lot of couples could have moved to their areas of origin, have the support of the extended family (grandparents) and that would have likely helped with children (particularly with couples yearning to have more children.

It was another lost occasion to revitalise some of the smaller towns.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#93

Post by higeorge13 »

sixtyj wrote: post #85
higeorge13 wrote: post #38

Same in Greece, the countryside and even the islands are dying or declining. Everyone is moving to Athens or nearby big cities. Even most greek islands have become huge only-summer resorts and a large airbnb, most of their villages are almost empty during the winter. There are various reasons but the most important ones are that a big majority of properties has been bought by foreigners as vacation homes and there is…

It is sad what you mention. The commoditisation, clustering and gentrification of landscape and living is world-wide phenomenon. At Corsica FLNC fought with bombing against hijacking of landscape by vacationers. But xenophobia solves nothing. Revolution? Slow collapse? Some way out of the cities and back to the countryside? Idk. Time will tell.

It's not about xenophobia, more like fear that the greek landscape we know won't be like this in the future. But greeks are not xenophobic, i would say the opposite. They seem to just enjoy the free money from selling their properties to anyone but don't care about what's left. Islands are getting over-built, Mykonos has become like a tiny Dubai, most popular greek beaches (e.g. Sarakiniko in Milos) are getting constructed with luxury hotels with pools, etc destroying the natural landscape, island villages are getting bought by foreigners who visit Greece for 10 days every 2 or 3 years. What's left behind? Who will work as a regular plumber or baker there? Who will preserve the iconic greek island architecture in future buildings there? The non existent and corrupt construction laws or the foreigners who might not care enough for one of their remote properties (probably just used for extra income via airbnb)?

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#94

Post by higeorge13 »

d3vnull wrote: post #88
higeorge13 wrote: post #38

Same in Greece, the countryside and even the islands are dying or declining. Everyone is moving to Athens or nearby big cities. Even most greek islands have become huge only-summer resorts and a large airbnb, most of their villages are almost empty during the winter. There are various reasons but the most important ones are that a big majority of properties has been bought by foreigners as vacation homes and there is…

This tendency started long before airbnb and foreigners started buying a "big majority of properties". People have been moving to cities for decades now. Many of humanities recent developments make much more sense at scale so people are going to places with that scale. Some prefer a quieter environment and don't move but most people rather have opportunities, jobs, services, etc and all that is made much easier when…

That's true, but at least all these places were kept unharmed and less touristic before airbnb. Each island's tourism was almost limited around hotels and established rental houses before. Airbnb opened up the gates for that extra income for anyone having more than 1 property, these side businesses, building, renovating, managing, cleaning, selling around airbnb. And if you are a rich foreigner, you can buy properties everywhere in the world and keep making money from that local tourism.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#95

Post by yoz-y »

frail_figure wrote: post #32
yoz-y wrote: post #6

Not enough software engineers converting to farming? Shocking. If anything else, for me the main issue in France is the dearth of doctors in rural areas. So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick.

> So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick. Grew up in a village. What you do is... drive to another village / town. There are always doctors to be found - and less queues than in big cities.

Yeah. That worked before when most villages had a doctor or a clinic. In France (and my native country too) at least the situation is getting bad. You can look up medical deserts.

Driving to another part also often implies having someone to drive you.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#96

Post by vladvasiliu »

higeorge13 wrote: post #94
d3vnull wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tendency started long before airbnb and foreigners started buying a "big majority of properties". People have been moving to cities for decades now. Many of humanities recent developments make much more sense at scale so people are going to places with that scale. Some prefer a quieter environment and don't move but most people rather have opportunities, jobs, services, etc and all that is made much easier when…

That's true, but at least all these places were kept unharmed and less touristic before airbnb. Each island's tourism was almost limited around hotels and established rental houses before. Airbnb opened up the gates for that extra income for anyone having more than 1 property, these side businesses, building, renovating, managing, cleaning, selling around airbnb. And if you are a rich foreigner, you can buy propertie…

Were they actually "kept unharmed"? If many people are moving out, services start to wither, too. Which pushes even more people to move out.

Sure, bringing in tons of tourists where there were initially none is going to change a place. But isn't it a way to keep it alive, even if different?

I think the situation is different from places where people actually want to live but are pushed out "by the rich" (tourists or second-home owners).

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#97

Post by 72deluxe »

higeorge13 wrote: post #38

Same in Greece, the countryside and even the islands are dying or declining. Everyone is moving to Athens or nearby big cities. Even most greek islands have become huge only-summer resorts and a large airbnb, most of their villages are almost empty during the winter. There are various reasons but the most important ones are that a big majority of properties has been bought by foreigners as vacation homes and there is…

That's very sad. Is there any governmental interest in some form of monetary incentive to maintain a particular trade in an area? I seem to recall some Italian towns/villages offering reduced priced housing for those that stay in the area and run businesses locally for a set number of years.

As a foreigner, I very much enjoy holidaying in your beautiful islands but do not wish to destroy their charm with my attendance. You have some beautiful waters.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#98

Post by 72deluxe »

tanepiper wrote: post #7
yoz-y wrote: post #6

Not enough software engineers converting to farming? Shocking. If anything else, for me the main issue in France is the dearth of doctors in rural areas. So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick.

This. I'm originally from the UK, now in NL and the plan was to retire in France. Being close to a hospital is one requirement since some of these villages are over a hour away. With that and climate change our plans might be changing

Out of curiosity, where did you plan on retiring to and what preparations would be needed? I drove down France this year over a few weeks in an old camper van during the heatwave (like being in an oven) and it is a truly vast beautiful country. I couldn't possibly decide where to retire there, if I ever had a chance (I won't).

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#100

Post by vladvasiliu »

yoz-y wrote: post #95
frail_figure wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick. Grew up in a village. What you do is... drive to another village / town. There are always doctors to be found - and less queues than in big cities.

Yeah. That worked before when most villages had a doctor or a clinic. In France (and my native country too) at least the situation is getting bad. You can look up medical deserts. Driving to another part also often implies having someone to drive you.

This. I have a colleague living in Orleans. It's a city of a little more than 100k inhabits. She apparently has a hard enough time getting a doctor's appointment that she'd rather come to Paris.

If you live further out in the countryside, it can be a real PITA to find someone.

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