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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#111

Post by dandaka »

danw1979 wrote: post #75
dandaka wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what happened in Moscow after same tech was launched. It is much 'safer' on streets, since every entrance door and traffic intersection is equipped with cameras now. But I pick Portugal's approach every time — no public cameras, no dashcams, it is forbidden to record private persons in public without permission.

I’m in Portugal with kids right now and I can not think of a country where dashcams would be more useful. The standard of driving and adherence to the law of the roads is some of the worst I’ve encountered in Europe. I haven’t let go of my 9yo’s hand since we arrived in Porto a few days ago. Speeding is chronic and nobody gives a shit for the safety of you or your children here.

Recording everything has a lot of upsides. Unfortunately, downsides for privacy and democracy are very real.

Talking about speeding, not sure. I am driving around Lisbon and speed limit is 50 in city, and lots of speed cameras. Though I am driving at 55 as limit and rarely see anyone going faster than that.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#112

Post by [deleted] »

Schiendelman wrote: post #105
dofm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did it ever cross Britain's mind that the whole IRA debacle is of its own doing? Can't you just leave Ireland for good and let them be? That people still ask this question betrays only that they aren't well-informed about what actual issues led to the Troubles.

Tell us more! I don't know anything about it either. Couldn't the UK have ceded it to Ireland? Or would the problems just have gone another direction?

[deleted]

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#113

Post by foldr »

brettermeier wrote: post #94
foldr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with your sibling comment, what you’re describing is theoretically possible, but it’s also more difficult and resource intensive than the simple dumb alternative of blocking off the area of the planned protest and putting some police officers outside nearby tube stations to arrest anyone who’s clearly intending to head to the protest. It’s already easy for the police to prevent protests in a practical sense. It’s…

There might not be a publicly known area for that protest.

Then it’s most likely going to be a very small protest.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#114

Post by constantius »

danw1979 wrote: post #75
dandaka wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what happened in Moscow after same tech was launched. It is much 'safer' on streets, since every entrance door and traffic intersection is equipped with cameras now. But I pick Portugal's approach every time — no public cameras, no dashcams, it is forbidden to record private persons in public without permission.

I’m in Portugal with kids right now and I can not think of a country where dashcams would be more useful. The standard of driving and adherence to the law of the roads is some of the worst I’ve encountered in Europe. I haven’t let go of my 9yo’s hand since we arrived in Porto a few days ago. Speeding is chronic and nobody gives a shit for the safety of you or your children here.

You are in a new country and feel that your kid needs protection, which is perfectly human, but does mean that your opinion is a bit biased.

As sibling comments mention, countries exist with many cameras, public or private, where driving feels worse. I didn't look at road deaths, but I'd be surprised if Portugal is among the leading countries on this.

Equally, if you take a bit of distance, you can realise that Portugal has many other parents living there, yet they are not clamouring for more surveillance: it's difficult to imagine that the Portuguese dictatorial government is evilly preventing its people from accessing the benefits of surveillance.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#115

Post by tancop »

dandaka wrote: post #17
spacebanana7 wrote: post #5

“Our deployments are intelligence-led and focused on identifying people wanted by the police or courts, including those suspected of serious offences and those who may be breaching bail conditions or court orders” This is crazy. Could easily be used to track protesters who went to the an event the police didn’t like.

This is exactly what happened in Moscow after same tech was launched. It is much 'safer' on streets, since every entrance door and traffic intersection is equipped with cameras now. But I pick Portugal's approach every time — no public cameras, no dashcams, it is forbidden to record private persons in public without permission.

private citizens should be allowed to record anything. make it strictly forbidden for the government and businesses because they have the power and motivation to abuse it, but that risk doesnt really exist for an ordinary person.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#116

Post by dofm »

Schiendelman wrote: post #105
dofm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did it ever cross Britain's mind that the whole IRA debacle is of its own doing? Can't you just leave Ireland for good and let them be? That people still ask this question betrays only that they aren't well-informed about what actual issues led to the Troubles.

Tell us more! I don't know anything about it either. Couldn't the UK have ceded it to Ireland? Or would the problems just have gone another direction?

There are two largely different concepts/epochs separated by more than 40 years.

The negotiations and partition of Ireland and the establishment of Northern Ireland as a self-governing province (rather than being governed from Britain):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Ireland

And then the Troubles, which were a sectarian conflict between Catholics and Protestants within Northern Ireland itself, that stemmed from Protestant oppression of Catholic rights protests (patterned after the US civil rights movement). The Wikipedia pages are really good, but the top level page is great because it covers the early days so well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#117

Post by dandaka »

tancop wrote: post #115
dandaka wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what happened in Moscow after same tech was launched. It is much 'safer' on streets, since every entrance door and traffic intersection is equipped with cameras now. But I pick Portugal's approach every time — no public cameras, no dashcams, it is forbidden to record private persons in public without permission.

private citizens should be allowed to record anything. make it strictly forbidden for the government and businesses because they have the power and motivation to abuse it, but that risk doesnt really exist for an ordinary person.

Maybe they should. But I think there is a correlation between "private citizens can't record other citizens" and "almost no cameras around". Coming from a country with a lots of cameras (where people record each other as well), this is a very comforting feeling.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#118

Post by Citizen_Lame »

_fw wrote: post #53

It’s a moot point. I’m saddened at the invasion of privacy and the intrusion on an individual’s civil liberties, but anonymous travel on the London Underground died when they made bank cards and contactless the primary way to get through the barriers. I’m not saying that “this doesn’t matter because it’s slightly worse than before”. I’m saying the frog has been boiling for a long time. I don’t want people being surpr…

And yet, crime is doing fine. This tells you what the surveillance state is really for.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#119

Post by Citizen_Lame »

codeduck wrote: post #24
root-parent wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the country that can´t stop dingy boats...this despite journalists always being able to be there on time to take pictures for the Daily Mail...

All right, mate, let's hear your plan for securing the UK's south-eastern coastline.

Sharks and tornados, and imagine if we can combine them!

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#120

Post by constantius »

dofm wrote: post #77
_fw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a specific GDPR carve out as outlined by the ICO here: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re... I don’t have evidence that shows specific examples of where it happens, but the state apparatus for it to do so exists. I think it’s a reasonable assumption that it is happening on a daily basis.

That does not at all suggest that UK ISPs proactively share anything with the state. What it means is the GDPR doesn't stop ISPs choosing to share when asked , rather than waiting for the warranted request that will come, as long as there is a lawful basis. Again: I don't really have a problem with that. If you've ever used a website that arranges work for lone workers (freelancers who do site visits, freelance estat…

I think your understanding of 'proactively' might just be different from parent's (and mine).

I'd agree that entities that provide their users' data upon a simple request, and a carveout in regulations that allows (not forces) them to do so, fits the definition of proactive.

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